3D printing a structure for an experiment with magnets

[Low-Q]

Hi all,


I have started the 3D printing of a structure that will fit 9x magnets that measure 26mm in diameter and 6mm thick.
Earlier I made a simulation of a GE-rotary magnet motor that actually gave 120%...but unfortunatly impossible to build.
That earlier design had an inner and outer gear with gear ratio 5 : 4. Both rotors measured the same torque in oposite direction, but the inner rotor spun 20% faster, and therfor 20% more energy that could counter the energy in the outer rotor that was holding it back.


No I have started to build one, but with different configuration of the magnets. I know this will not work, but I want to learn more about magnets through practical use.


In the pictures there is two different positions of the inner and outer gear.
Magnet 1, 2, 3 and 4 is placed on the inner gear, and magnet A, B, C, D, and E are placed in the outer gear.
For each 45° rotation of the inner gear, there is 36° rotation of the outer gear. A gear ratio of 5 : 4.


I look forward to see what actually happens when I place those two gears together. They work very fine as a fluid pump when powering it with a motor.... How will it work with magnets? LOL


This is the idea.
Initial position (picture 0-0 degree):
Magnet 1 repels A, attracts E (Strongly)
Magnet 2 repels B, attracts A (Strongly)
Magnet 3 wants to go nowhere, but repels D and attract B (Weakly)
Magnet 4 repels E, attracts D (Moderate/strongly)


After 45° counterclockwise rotation of the inner gear and 36° rotation of the outer gear.

Magnet 1 repels A, attracts E (Strongly)
Magnet 2 repels B, attracts A (Strongly)
Magnet 3 repels C, attracts B (Strongly)
Magnet 4 repels E, attracts D (Strongly)


I would guess that the difference in torque in these gears are 4:5, resulting in zero output. The 3D printed structure will be finished in 5 hours from now. Placing the magnets takes 30 minutes with hot-glue. Whish me luck 

[Low-Q]

"nitial position (picture 0-0 degree):
Magnet 1 repels A, attracts E (Strongly)
Magnet 2 repels B, attracts A (Strongly)
Magnet 3 wants to go nowhere, but repels D and attract B (Weakly)
Magnet 4 repels E, attracts D (Moderate/strongly)"


I was wrong about magnet 3. It is neutral about midway between C and B. Tested it now with a poor 3D print.
I had to start over with some more infill and slower print. This proves that what one might think about magnets behaviour is not allways right 
The new model is finished in about 4 hours from now....

[Low-Q]

Here is pictures during printing, some of the neo-magnets I have extracted from defektive speakers, and the final product.
Actually, the photo of the printing process was my first print of these gears - the one that got very poor quality.


So, what can I say other than being ringt that it does not work. The magnets are so strong they actually deform the outer gear into an oval shape, but if there was excess energy of 20%, it would have no problems in go selfrunning - but it doesn't. Fair enough. Yet another proof that magnets can't do work.


Webby, can you make a simple drawing of what you suggest?


Vidar

[Low-Q]

Thanks for your post Webby.


I actually have a second hand hand ge-rotary oil pump that I bought on Ebay several years ago. It is quite small, and tricky to handle with my magnets. As soon as I put magnets on the outer and inner gear, these gears tend to lock up due to terrible friction.


I must find a way to solve that problem - for example using the 3D printer to print a mold of inner and outer gears, that I fill with iron powder mixed with low viscosity resin (You can buy expensive 2/3 litre + 1/3 bottles with this thin resin and hardner that is used to squirt into gaps in cracked concrete).


Gears can be made larger and therfor easier to handle.


Now I need to spend a small fortune on such resin and iron powder....Doing everything for a good cause, right? 


Vidar

[Low-Q]

I used to work with laser copiers and printers for 10 years, but those printers did not have metal spheres in the toner - only organic toner.
The toner you mention was probably used to attach the actual printing toner into a drum that was charged with a chorona wire. Those printers and copiers was nasty stuff as they spewed out O3 (Ozone) from the corona wire.
These days they usually use a charger foam roller that charge the image drum. A LED-bar with thousands of small IR-LEDs makes sure the surface of the image drum get correctly charged where the organic toner get stuck into, and then transferred into the paper that has an opposite charge.


I think the easiest way for me is to spend a few bucks on iron powder.


There is however one concern using external magnets to magnetize the gears. The magnets will also cover the emtpy space between the lobes of the outer gear, and i addition, the iron will not act like a magnet will do, since the field will mainly follow the iron, and not "send" the magnetic field into emty space between the lobes.


There will be a magnetisation, and interaction between inner and outer gear, but the torque readings will have the same difference as the angular velocity of the gears. So the potential energy that rest in the gears will be equally, and oppose each other. The result is a dead motor.


This is "proven" by simulations in FEMM, and also proven by experiments.


The gears must be magnets to make this work, but the outer gear must be a magnet that rotate in the opposite direction of the rotation of the gear in the same rate, so the magnetic field will point to the same direction all the time regardless of the outer gears orientation.


It is possible to use 5 magnets that by a transmission will keep the same orientation all the time, but the magnets will oppose the rotation as the torque in them will counterforce any change in direction.
The sum of it all will still be a dead motor.


Wouldn't it be fun to find a way around? I'll work on that one.... :-)


Vidar