The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency

[MileHigh]

Nelson:

Myself already answer about that point but i answer again :
Self induction of coil will be zero.  In a pancake bifilar coil  the magnetic field of one of winding is  equal and opposite to that created by the other wind canceling their self inductance.

No, in fact the self-induction of the coil will not be zero in a bifilar pancake coil.   The magnetic fields of each of the windings add together.  The currents in each of the two windings travel in the same direction.  At lower frequencies a bifilar pancake coil and a regular pancake coil will look exactly the same.

Sorry but i don't agree about that point that regular solenoid have a more efficient coupling in power transfer , and even with less wire , resistance and self-capacitance . You should test before talk otherwise you are just talking something that someone write and you assume that true is unbreakable.

In a certain sense I suppose that we are both in the same position then, aren't we?  You are talking before testing also, aren't you?  So why do you disagree with me?

A pancake coil exhibits a substantial amount of magnetic field self cancellation where part of the magnetic field generated by one loop of wire is cancelled out by part of the magnetic field of the adjacent loops of wire.  A long solenoid coil will also do this but a solenoid coil that is shorter in length compared to the diameter will exhibit much less magnetic field self-cancellation resulting in a higher inductance per unit length of wire.  The center of a short solenoid coil is almost a pure area of flux addition with no cancellation.  Therefore if you place two short solenoid coils face-to-face you have a very good coupling of flux from one coil to the other coil with very little flux self-cancellation.  It's a no-brainer that two short solenoid coils will couple better together as an air-core transformer than two pancake coils.

Sure i understand , that point and i did not say that is the best option or not , just tell that is possible with a square wave find the self -resonant frequency of the coil in same way.

Yes it is possible to find the resonant frequency of a coil with a square wave excitation but it is also very possible to make a mistake using this method.  What I am not hearing from you is why there is a problem with a square wave and why the proper way to do it is with a sine wave.  Do you know the reasons?  I see no discussion about this critical issue.

Now you are start acting a bit more weird  ... what peers are you referring ?  About you say that are viewing more deeply than me , for sure not , go to bench and test it is easy and after you can show us .
OHHH i forget ! You don't need you already answer that in last email your "peers" already did that no chance of that "peers" fail.

What is so strange about saying that your peers are the people in this thread and on this forum?  If you are viewing more deeply than me explain yourself please.  Test what on the bench?

I don't think that coil is special , i guarantee that is real special because i already test it, otherwise why should i use in my  work ? . Should i demonstrate to whom?

Why don't you share your information right here with your peers?  What is real special about a pancake coil?

otherwise you are just throw away words like a parrot

Nope, I am not throwing away words like a parrot.  I am raising serious issues for consideration and asking for substantive information.  It's too easy to convince yourself that you are in some "magical bifilar pancake coil club."  I am looking for real substance.  This is a way to induce you to think critically about what you are doing and ask yourselves about the merits of your testing and about the merits of different coil configurations.  Just because Tesla issued a patent for a bifilar pancake coil does not make it "magic."  Do you see what I am saying?

MileHigh

[MileHigh]

+1
opening our minds, requires opening our hearts

Speaking of opening your mind, do you actually know how a coil works?  It's fun to play with them but I can tell you that more than 95% of experimenters on places like this don't know how coils actually work.  It's a strange phenomenon and I can tell you that you would be much better off to understand how a coil works first in order to get more out of your experiments.  If you are beginner it is not an easy subject to tackle.  In many ways the way coils work are counter-intuitive and it can be a difficult subject to understand.  That's why Bedini never explained how coils work to his followers at the various conferences he was part of.  He was better off leaving the whole subject shrouded in mystery.

[MileHigh]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uiLgM3EkQBE
With this bifilar pancake coil i can charge the 12 v battery without magnet rotor, can you describe this experiment...?

Jorge, I looked at your clip.  It's just a variation on when you have a Bedini motor where the rotor does not turn and the Bedini circuit goes into spontaneous self-oscillation.  You have an oscillating circuit that is energizing the pancake coils and then the pancake coils discharge into the battery when the transistors switch off.  Exactly the same circuit could be built and demonstrated with an ordinary coil.

[MileHigh]

Nice experiment, and a nice stack of pancake coils!

I've been wondering about charging a battery with the dielectric resonant voltage. Thanks for showing that it works.

Have you noticed a difference, in how the coil is connected? I noticed, north is stronger. Why do you not use 2 diodes, to create a plus and minus from the resonant sine wave?

really cool to hear it buzzing with the magnet on top. I hear my coils buzzing sometimes, when I load them unbalanced.

A little reality check for you Evostars.  The battery is not being charged with a "dielectric resonant voltage."  I don't even know what that means.  The battery is being charged with current pulses from the coil.  It's very plain and ordinary.  In Jorge's circuit it would not make sense to have two diodes at all, the current to charge the battery flows in one direction only and you only need one diode.  There is no "resonant sine wave."  Nothing in that circuit is resonating in the true sense of the word, rather, the circuit is oscillating.  There is a difference between "resonating" and "oscillating."  For example, when a 555 timer circuit outputs a square wave signal, nothing in the 555 timer circuit is resonating.  Rather, the 555 timer circuit is oscillating as a "bistable multivibrator."  That is somewhat analogous to what is happening in Jorge's circuit.

What is the coil actually doing in this circuit?  It's being energized when the transistors switch on.  When the transistors switch off, the coll discharges into the battery.  There is no sine wave or resonance in sight.

This is just me giving you an example of why you should learn how a coil actually works to get more out of your experiments.  It's all up to you.

[nelsonrochaa]

Nelson:

No, in fact the self-induction of the coil will not be zero in a bifilar pancake coil.   The magnetic fields of each of the windings add together.  The currents in each of the two windings travel in the same direction.  At lower frequencies a bifilar pancake coil and a regular pancake coil will look exactly the same.

In a certain sense I suppose that we are both in the same position then, aren't we?  You are talking before testing also, aren't you?  So why do you disagree with me?

A pancake coil exhibits a substantial amount of magnetic field self cancellation where part of the magnetic field generated by one loop of wire is cancelled out by part of the magnetic field of the adjacent loops of wire.  A long solenoid coil will also do this but a solenoid coil that is shorter in length compared to the diameter will exhibit much less magnetic field self-cancellation resulting in a higher inductance per unit length of wire.  The center of a short solenoid coil is almost a pure area of flux addition with no cancellation.  Therefore if you place two short solenoid coils face-to-face you have a very good coupling of flux from one coil to the other coil with very little flux self-cancellation.  It's a no-brainer that two short solenoid coils will couple better together as an air-core transformer than two pancake coils.

Yes it is possible to find the resonant frequency of a coil with a square wave excitation but it is also very possible to make a mistake using this method.  What I am not hearing from you is why there is a problem with a square wave and why the proper way to do it is with a sine wave.  Do you know the reasons?  I see no discussion about this critical issue.

What is so strange about saying that your peers are the people in this thread and on this forum?  If you are viewing more deeply than me explain yourself please.  Test what on the bench?

Why don't you share your information right here with your peers?  What is real special about a pancake coil?

Nope, I am not throwing away words like a parrot.  I am raising serious issues for consideration and asking for substantive information.  It's too easy to convince yourself that you are in some "magical bifilar pancake coil club."  I am looking for real substance.  This is a way to induce you to think critically about what you are doing and ask yourselves about the merits of your testing and about the merits of different coil configurations.  Just because Tesla issued a patent for a bifilar pancake coil does not make it "magic."  Do you see what I am saying?

MileHigh

Sorry, MH but nothing that i could say will change your position , and i can only accept your opinion, but you will not listen to what you want listen.
About you say that we are both in the same position , that statement  are Miles away from the true because you are just a more theoretical person , and you knowledge is based not in practical work itself  but only in lecture . Are you a researcher ? Can you point to me or to others where i could find some of your experiments in last years ? I will appreciate that you could provide to us some of that work , sincerely.

Nelson Rocha