The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency

[MileHigh]

Sorry, MH but nothing that i could say will change your position , and i can only accept your opinion, but you will not listen to what you want listen.
About you say that we are both in the same position , that statement  are Miles away from the true because you are just a more theoretical person , and you knowledge is based not in practical work itself  but only in lecture . Are you a researcher ? Can you point to me or to others where i could find some of your experiments in last years ? I will appreciate that you could provide to us some of that work , sincerely.

Nelson Rocha

Nelson, I asked you specific questions about your claims about pancake coils and your bench work and you are avoiding answering them.  Why are you avoiding answering?

How do you know my knowledge is not based on any practical work?  Aren't you sensing that I have some technical knowledge?

Forget about the "show me your experiments or I won't talk with you" game.  We are having a conversation right now and you have not responded to the issues I raised and the questions I posed to you in my last posting to you.  Please respond to my last posting.

MileHigh

[evostars]

Im not here posting for a discussion. I dont care for that. So I dont read all your posts. Im here to give my vision, my thuth. And I might be wrong. I know because I have been wrong a lot. Thats what i call learning. To think for myself. to question, and listen to my heart.

I made some pictures about the fields of the bifilar coil.
Shown in red and blue are 10 windings. You see only half of a bifilar pancake coil. The other half is mirrored on the right (use youre imagination).
I provide 100 volts, the red is one winding into the center, the blue is the second winding into the center, connected by the grey wire.

The voltage difference is 50 and 40. this 10V difference, is because i only use 10 windings in this example. If if would have 1000 windings, the difference would be 0,1 volt. (0,1%), so 49,9V and 50V.

A single wire, with current, radiates the dielectric field outwards, and the magnetic field circles around it. I also included a picture from Steinmetz, that shows the magnetic and dielectric field lines of two conducting wires. (figure yourself out if the current flows in the same direction or not).

The magnetic field flows over the windings of the pancake coil. above, and below are different directions, inward to the center hole, and outward to the outer rim. (the other side is mirrored).

If we would look from above, we would see a whirlpool/vortex of the magnetic field. One side is centrifugal, the other side is centripetal.
meaning, flowing towards the center from the outer rim, or flowing from the center outwards.

The direction of the vortex is determined by the current flow (right hand rule).

With AC, we have alternating current, meaning the direction of the vortex reverses. At the same time the voltage differnce between the windings remains the same. The dielectric field seeks the smallest place, which is the center of the coil. there it creates pressure. This pressure pushes out the field lines, creating the magnetic field. it can only go up or down. the direction is determined by the direction of the current flow, making the magnetic vortex.

therefor one side is strong in pushing, generating pressure (north) while the other is pulling, sucking in the field lines. (south)

Al fields are ether fields. the magnetic field is a ether field, the dielectric field is a ether field. It is the configuration of the field lines, that determines its actions.  when a ether whirlpool/vortex is created, we have a magnetic field(turning left or right is north or south). If the field has radial coherent lines, we have a dielectric field. (gravity is another topic, but guess what...)

With AC the dielectric field, is building up between the wires, in the smallest place. The magnetic field vortexes have to travel all the way around the coil. A much bigger distance than the space between the windings. This takes time. It takes time for the magnetic field to build up, and then when the current alters (AC) the magnetic field vortex flow, is reversed! This reversing field has inertia. At the same time the dielectric field between the spiral windings, has no difficulty in sitting there. It is not related to the alternating current. It is related to the voltage.

At a certain frequency, the magnetic field with its inertia, cant collapse anymore. It becomes static. The pulses it receives from the coil, are perfectly aligned with the building up and collapsing of the magnetic field. the field. The field gets a pulse, just when it was about to collapse. so it stays there. it becomes a stable vortex. A vortex of ether flow. sucking in, and pushing out.

the dielectric field rises in voltage. it starts radiating outwards, it becomes free of the magnetic vortex restricktions. the dielectric field expands outside of the windings, outside of the coil. this is why a neon tub lights up, its because of the dielectric field at its resonant frequency.

So far, my understaning, you dont have to agree, I dont say its true, its just my perspective. Alot of it is based on Eric p. Dollard, telsa, steinmets, Ken Wheeler, jj thompson etc...

[nelsonrochaa]

Nelson, I asked you specific questions about your claims about pancake coils and your bench work and you are avoiding answering them.  Why are you avoiding answering?

How do you know my knowledge is not based on any practical work?  Aren't you sensing that I have some technical knowledge?

Forget about the "show me your experiments or I won't talk with you" game.  We are having a conversation right now and you have not responded to the issues I raised and the questions I posed to you in my last posting to you.  Please respond to my last posting.

MileHigh

MH ,
Did i told or write "show me your experiments or I won't talk with you" ?    I think not .  I already response to you but you try all time refute my answers  .
What i should do about that ? Only respect you opinion nothing more . I can not argue with someone that have their own solid opinion already formed, and i'm not try convince you of nothing or should i try make that like you  ?

I only ask if you are a researcher , and if you are , point us  to you show some of you work just that . To me and is not need have a special "sense" to understand that you have knowledge and most of that is based in your crystallized intelligence  that you collect in your professional career like i already explain to you some posts behind. I could sense to that for sure you have already a advanced age , making you shielding yourself to protect your ego , maybe because in some part of your life you already work in something relevant or important in your professional career .

Is enough MH  , let topic run normally , our conversation already start upset the owner of topic evostars and he have right about that , because we already exposed some of our opinions even different opinions .

Nelson Rocha

[nelsonrochaa]

Im not here posting for a discussion. I dont care for that. So I dont read all your posts. Im here to give my vision, my thuth. And I might be wrong. I know because I have been wrong a lot. Thats what i call learning. To think for myself. to question, and listen to my heart.

I made some pictures about the fields of the bifilar coil.
Shown in red and blue are 10 windings. You see only half of a bifilar pancake coil. The other half is mirrored on the right (use youre imagination).
I provide 100 volts, the red is one winding into the center, the blue is the second winding into the center, connected by the grey wire.

The voltage difference is 50 and 40. this 10V difference, is because i only use 10 windings in this example. If if would have 1000 windings, the difference would be 0,1 volt. (0,1%), so 49,9V and 50V.

A single wire, with current, radiates the dielectric field outwards, and the magnetic field circles around it. I also included a picture from Steinmetz, that shows the magnetic and dielectric field lines of two conducting wires. (figure yourself out if the current flows in the same direction or not).

The magnetic field flows over the windings of the pancake coil. above, and below are different directions, inward to the center hole, and outward to the outer rim. (the other side is mirrored).

If we would look from above, we would see a whirlpool/vortex of the magnetic field. One side is centrifugal, the other side is centripetal.
meaning, flowing towards the center from the outer rim, or flowing from the center outwards.

The direction of the vortex is determined by the current flow (right hand rule).

With AC, we have alternating current, meaning the direction of the vortex reverses. At the same time the voltage differnce between the windings remains the same. The dielectric field seeks the smallest place, which is the center of the coil. there it creates pressure. This pressure pushes out the field lines, creating the magnetic field. it can only go up or down. the direction is determined by the direction of the current flow, making the magnetic vortex.

therefor one side is strong in pushing, generating pressure (north) while the other is pulling, sucking in the field lines. (south)

Al fields are ether fields. the magnetic field is a ether field, the dielectric field is a ether field. It is the configuration of the field lines, that determines its actions.  when a ether whirlpool/vortex is created, we have a magnetic field(turning left or right is north or south). If the field has radial coherent lines, we have a dielectric field. (gravity is another topic, but guess what...)

With AC the dielectric field, is building up between the wires, in the smallest place. The magnetic field vortexes have to travel all the way around the coil. A much bigger distance than the space between the windings. This takes time. It takes time for the magnetic field to build up, and then when the current alters (AC) the magnetic field vortex flow, is reversed! This reversing field has inertia. At the same time the dielectric field between the spiral windings, has no difficulty in sitting there. It is not related to the alternating current. It is related to the voltage.

At a certain frequency, the magnetic field with its inertia, cant collapse anymore. It becomes static. The pulses it receives from the coil, are perfectly aligned with the building up and collapsing of the magnetic field. the field. The field gets a pulse, just when it was about to collapse. so it stays there. it becomes a stable vortex. A vortex of ether flow. sucking in, and pushing out.

the dielectric field rises in voltage. it starts radiating outwards, it becomes free of the magnetic vortex restricktions. the dielectric field expands outside of the windings, outside of the coil. this is why a neon tub lights up, its because of the dielectric field at its resonant frequency.

So far, my understaning, you dont have to agree, I dont say its true, its just my perspective. Alot of it is based on Eric p. Dollard, telsa, steinmets, Ken Wheeler, jj thompson etc...

Very nice explanation ***** stars

[MileHigh]

Evostars:

Don't be passive-aggressive rude with this "I am not reading you" comment.

I attached a graphic that I got with a search.  Your shape of the magnetic field around a pancake coil is fundamentally correct.  However, it is not a vortex, there is no movement, there is no Bloch wall.  If you have DC going through a pancake coil, you can envision the magnetic field like a compressed static doughnut shape and of course in theory it extends out to infinity.  It simply represents the storage of the supplied electrical energy in the form of a magnetic field.

When it comes to magnetic fields there is actually no such thing as "North" and "South" because magnetic field lines form continuous loops.  "North" and "South" are nothing more than artificial nomenclature shortcuts that make it easier to discuss magnetic fields.  Yes, that means there is actually no such thing as a "North" magnetic field emanating from the north pole of a bar magnet.

One place where you are directing too much investigative energy, in my opinion, is with respect to the electric field lines between the turns of a pancake coil.  In terms of energy storage and what determines the electrical dynamics of a coil, the magnetic field and the energy stored in the magnetic field of a coil is the elephant, and the electric field and the energy stored in the electric field is the tiny insignificant ant.

What you should want to do it learn how a coil works in a circuit first and foremost, but ultimately that is your choice.  For example, if I said to you the instant you connect a coil to your battery source, what is the most interesting and relevant piece of information about that event?  I would not be surprised if you cannot answer that.

You need to look at art as an example.  Picasso and Warhol started off as regular commercial artists making ordinary paintings.  It's only after they mastered that part of the craft did they branch out and paint cubist figures with three eyes and replicate images of soup cans.  The point is understanding the basics gives you a foundation to learn more about the esoteric.

At a certain frequency, the magnetic field with its inertia, cant collapse anymore. It becomes static

Coils and their associated circuits have frequency transfer characteristics as you sweep the frequency up and down.  It is indeed a phenomenon related to inertia.  But there is no such thing as saying "the coil can't collapse anymore, it becomes static."  Understanding frequency characteristics and frequency transfer functions is one of the fundamental things about coils (and capacitors) that you should know if you want to understand what is happening on your bench.

MileHigh