A bunch of questions regarding radially magetized ring magnet.

[gyulasun]

Id rather they were magnets as I think there is too much leakage with iron core paths. 

Well, it depends...  See this hard disk picture with its back plate behind it (I took the pictures
from this site: http://www.reuk.co.uk/wordpress/wind/hard-disk-drive-magnets-for-wind-turbines/ )
You know such magnets are quadrapole ones, they act like two magnets stuck together side by side.
On one face there is a South pole on the left and a North pole on the right, on the other face there is
a North pole on the left and a South pole on the right. And the back plate connects the N and S poles
that are at the bottom face. Some time ago I checked with an office pin how magnetic the back side of
such a back plate + magnet assembly had been. The pin was not attracted to the back of the backing plate,
this means the plate surely had high permeability and was thick enough to avoid saturation so a negligible
amount of flux could exit (i.e. leak) from the back of the plate.

I said it before, I wonder if the core paths were made of neo but not magnetized, if they would work
better than iron?

I have not had a chance to have such unmagnetized material so I do not know, I assume they should have
a high magnetic permeability before the magnetization.  Such materials should have the same rigid, hard
and next to impossible to form_to_shape properties like the Neo or any other permanent magnets have.
I think even if one had say metglas material, he would have a hard time to shape it.

One more notice: if you use magnets to complete a magnetic circuit, you need to stack several of them
to reduce their own leakage too.   Also, at most uncovered surfaces of a magnet the lines of flux can freely
come out because all the body of a magnet is in an almost complete saturation, while the same lines of flux
'have a hard time'  to come out from a highly permeable soft iron material like the backing plate of a HD magnet. 

Gyula

[lancaIV]

Hello questions-bunch holder,here probably a "brainstorm"-questions/answer treasure :
https://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/biblio?CC=DE&NR=19741256A1&KC=A1&FT=D#

I would prefer to increase "mon-ocle view" views by twi(ce)light and then tri-nity-lightning with 4d-thinking
                                                        and real material use experimenting.

Also testing 1 ball-cup generator (or motor) with supplement to 2-ball-cup-system .

Happy day
                 OCWL

[Magluvin]

Well, it depends...  See this hard disk picture with its back plate behind it (I took the pictures
from this site: http://www.reuk.co.uk/wordpress/wind/hard-disk-drive-magnets-for-wind-turbines/ )
You know such magnets are quadrapole ones, they act like two magnets stuck together side by side.
On one face there is a South pole on the left and a North pole on the right, on the other face there is
a North pole on the left and a South pole on the right. And the back plate connects the N and S poles
that are at the bottom face. Some time ago I checked with an office pin how magnetic the back side of
such a back plate + magnet assembly had been. The pin was not attracted to the back of the backing plate,
this means the plate surely had high permeability and was thick enough to avoid saturation so a negligible
amount of flux could exit (i.e. leak) from the back of the plate.

I have not had a chance to have such unmagnetized material so I do not know, I assume they should have
a high magnetic permeability before the magnetization.  Such materials should have the same rigid, hard
and next to impossible to form_to_shape properties like the Neo or any other permanent magnets have.
I think even if one had say metglas material, he would have a hard time to shape it.

One more notice: if you use magnets to complete a magnetic circuit, you need to stack several of them
to reduce their own leakage too.   Also, at most uncovered surfaces of a magnet the lines of flux can freely
come out because all the body of a magnet is in an almost complete saturation, while the same lines of flux
'have a hard time'  to come out from a highly permeable soft iron material like the backing plate of a HD magnet. 

Gyula

This is why I believe that there will be more flux density between 2 magnet faces than from a magnet to a return core or even core to return core with remote magnet.

If we have a magnet facing another magnet, both already have very dense fields within. If it were magnet to return core, the gap end of the core is not going to hold or say carry all that flux from the other end of the magnet to the gap due to leakage of the core. And then in the case with the standard speaker motor with top plate and bottom pole plate, there will never be as much flux in the gap as there would be in the next better step, magnet to core gap. So having the magnet on both sides of the gap would be the densest field in the gap. Was reading on speaker design(not a lot out there like its forbidden knowledge. Only 2 software progs out there specific for speaker driver design exist as far as I know at this time and very pricey) and one of the ingredients to increasing the eff/sensitivity of the driver is to have a stronger mag field in the gap.  Im looking into creating my own subwoofers. Looked into a couple companies in china and they dont even know what Theil/Small parameters are, which are all the specs that are used to evaluate and calculate proper enclosures for each. These companies seem to just bang out what looks good, big triple stack magnets, large rubber surrounds, long heavy voice coils(most all overhung up to possibly only 1/8th of the coil in the gap. What a waste of power.) capable of taking on thousands of watts. Its a scam.

About 7 years ago Pioneer was beating everyone at SPL contests. They had subs that were longer than they were wide, 5000w to 8000w.  Now everyones in on it and raking in the cash.  After that pioneer dropped all the big equipment and went another route. They designed their speakers and subs to be more eff than most any out there, especially for the price, as the few others that have high sensitivity numbers charge big bucks.  Pioneers Champ Pro 12 is 96db @1w and can be had for under $100. They also have a pro 12 that is 105db @1w. Its more of a stage driver, not a bottom boom sub.  3db increase is a doubling of power. Many subs out there are under 90db @1w. So just in the case of the 2 pioneer 12s, the champ needs 4 times the power to just catch up to the pro 12. Im ordering one of those pro 12s 105db just to try it and compare to the champ.



So my buddy has 6 PSI 15in subs powered by 15kw in amps. His subs are 88.5db@1w.  My other friend, we are going to do 6 Pioneer champ pro 12s with only 5200w and they are 96db@1w ea.
My first bud needs to increase his amp setup to 30kw to beat the pioneer system that is only running 5200w. So now we are really seeing what efficiency can do for us.
My buddy with the PSI 15s is going to regret ignoring me on this subject and going with expensive monster equipment, spending over 10k vs 1k for equipment, let alone wires, etc.  Each of his amps take 2 + 0awg and 2 - 0awg.  Lots invested in that. His amps may not be super eff either. Thats another post.

So if you see the graphs of each setup in the WinIsd Beta speaker box program, it is ridiculous what people are spending because they dont know what the sensitivity spec is, and the ones that do have this idea that more is better.  Nuts

So Im going for a sub design that is aiming for efficiency. Hopefully more than whats available. The highest I have seen yet is 112db@1w, but it wasnt a sub woofer exactly. More of a stage driver.

Mags

[Magluvin]

Like simple pulse motors with say 1 coil and mags on a wheel. All of that is very inefficient. No return cores, open ended mags and coils. If just those things were installed, along with a full load of coils around the wheel, the same input will get you more output. The Pulse motor build off should be looking at these things. Actual measurements of the in and out and that should determine the winner. Not the coolest looking thing and all that jazz. But those numbers would be tough to prove without judge attendance, so it is what it is.

Mags

[Magluvin]

Just found a couple more software for speakers and some interesting fem pics. I gota put it up later though

Mags