12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !

[Dingus Mungus]

@fantasyl

#1 Did you turn on air resistance/friction? probably not.
Go to the world menu and select air resistance.

#2 Where is your baseline pendulum? How do you know your moving pendulum hasn't lost energy without a stationary pendulum to compare it to?

Please completely read the posts!

[fantasyl]

@ Mingus

#1 Ouch....you are right.  What is the coefficient I should use for "real world" simulation.... 0.100?

#2 In fact I used another approach. I always start with the pendulum not oscillating. If the machine (not the one above.....I did many different attempts/projects) can increase the rate at which the pendulum and the whole polygon rotates on the fulcrum.....this machine would clearly OU. Is this approach also valid?

Now I'm trying to get the work to move the pendulum done by the hammer (as all here), but maybe we should look in depth (as you suggested) the two pendulums project, which should generate harmonics and resonances, could you post or at least suggest the 2 configuration in which the pendulums were violating the 2nd law?

[Dingus Mungus]

I don't think you're understanding the 2 pendulum concept at all. One pendulum is attached to a lever like the patent states. The other pendulum is an exact duplicate of the first but hung stationary and not inertacting in any way with the experiment. The second pendulum has nothing to do with energy or harmonics or any of that theoretical garbage, its sole purpose is to allow you to compare which pendulum runs out of energy first first.

If the pendulum that interacts with nothing but air resistance stops before the pendulum which is also adding energy to the lever then clearly it has gained energy from somewhere and that violates the first law of thermodynamics or conservation of energy, I believe this because the energy added to the system is outweighted by the work returned by the system. You can clearly see this in my sim posts. The pendulum adding energy to the lever actually gains energy in comparison to the stationary pendulum.

Starting with a dead rest pendulum is an interesting concept but there is no energy to capture if it is indeed at a dead rest. The pendulum shouldn't move at all if the lever is balanced RIGHT?I would assume your lever balance is off, but there could be many factors leading to a falling pendulum gathering x velocity.

The DEFAULT air resistance is probably your best bet... Why would you even want to lower the resistance? Want to make your machines run longer or something? Whats the point in turning it on if you're going to lower its overall resistance by two thirds? I use high speed resistance or 0.300 kg/m^2 as it will allow for the most default resistance and makes the sim more realistic to earths air resistance as well. Lowering resistance and friction in your sims discredits us all so please be careful to make sure all sims are sent through a worse case senario when it comes to friction.

I can't save my work yet but the easiest way to under stand my 2 examples posted is to go look at them and attempt simuated replication...

~Dingus Mungus

[fantasyl]

Yes, I understood the 2nd pendulum was for comparison purposes only!

IMHO If you start trying to be close to the equilibrium as you can, and the pendulum (and polygon, the whole machine!!) increase it's oscillation rate in time, then you have OU.

I start with the with the lever NOT PERFECTLY balanced (as you said). I do this way because I found easier to look at small increment in oscillation rate of the machine.....

Please Mingus to capture my questions as they are.....simply questions! I didn't have the slightest idea of what was the "real world" value....that's all......
Now I putted it to .300 as you said.

[Dingus Mungus]

Sorry the "maybe we should look in depth (as you suggested) the two pendulums project, which should generate harmonics and resonances" line confused me. I had a lot of trouble expessing its purpose and what it measured. So I apoligise if my response was short.

A sugestion: a lever imbalance (in length) can be compensated with added weight (thickness) then you can balance your lever. This is important unless you find a way to make an energy comparison. A duplicate lever in the same starting position could work much in the same way as a dupe pendulum. Try it out if you get a chance but I think you'll find comparing the overall energy output for each lever will be quite difficult since only one lever would operate as a pendulum and the other as a restricted oscilator.

Good luck on your experiments and thanks for your interst in this project.


~Dingus Mungus