12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !

[i_ron]

No, I didn't lie. Having not dismantled your probes I can only guess how they are constructed. Logic dictates that when the probe measures the forces it has to generate some sort of opposing force in reaction to make measurement possible. The most likely scenario is that some spring mechanism inside re-sets the probe when the forces fluctuate. This spring, like it or not, stores energy that is fed back into the system as the spring relaxes.

This is what I have been talking about all along.

Hans von Lieven

Holy sh*t Hans, I hadn't thought of that. The load cell under a 100 pound load deflects .019 inches (,5 mm) so for the 40 pound load it must deflect .0076 thou, wow all the energy stored in this tiny space, hard to believe, wonder if I could patent this?
The "Ron Pugh battery" sounds great! Thanks mon...

Ron

Edit: Oh dear, I just realized I was using the same type of load cell on the input so the 12 pound input reading was just being absorbed in the cell and my actual reading would be lucky to reach 1 or 2 pounds... gosh, some days I just can't win...

[hansvonlieven]

The strain guage MUST absorb the energy in order to measure it. The degree of deflection is immaterial as long as it can be measured.

Hans von Lieven

[i_ron]

The strain guage MUST absorb the energy in order to measure it. The degree of deflection is immaterial as long as it can be measured.

Hans von Lieven

A totally bizarre statement. I can find nothing in the literature to support such a a hypothesis ....? only this...

Quote, "Strain gauge load cells and force transducers are available suitable for nominal loads from 5 G or 0.05 N up to 1000 tonnes or 10 MN. They are suitable for measuring both static and dynamic tension and compression forces to a high degree of accuracy"

Ron

Basic research is what I am doing when I don't know what I am doing.
 
    Wernher von Braun

I have learned to use the word 'impossible' with the greatest caution.
   
    Wernher von Braun

[i_ron]

OK Ron,

Here is the suggested comparison test. The diagram is self explanatory. The small motor provides the oscillations. Since the system is in balance the input energy is very small. Compare that to the load cell measurements and you will see what I mean.

Prove me wrong, I hope you do. I am not averse to eating crow if it advances our understanding of science.

Hans von Lieven

I did a partial test, as you had suggested. I just measured the input to the beam. The beam was in balance, the pendulum restricted to the down position.

The motor draws 18.928 watts unloaded and 25.894 watts operating the beam, thus say 7 watts to run the beam.

This is midway between the numbers I posted for the pendulum draw when running the beam. As I have stated that the solen oid drive is less than 30% efficient, the results are no surprise to me.

I will let my previous numbers stand for the load cell measurements between the arm and the hammer.

What this experi ment might suggest is that the balance beam acts as a force multiplier.

Ron

[hansvonlieven]

A totally bizarre statement. I can find nothing in the literature to support such a a hypothesis ....? only this...

Quote, "Strain gauge load cells and force transducers are available suitable for nominal loads from 5 G or 0.05 N up to 1000 tonnes or 10 MN. They are suitable for measuring both static and dynamic tension and compression forces to a high degree of accuracy"

Ron

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


A strain gauge (alternatively: strain gage) is a device used to measure the strain of an object. Invented by Edward E. Simmons and Arthur C. Ruge in 1938, the most common type of strain gauge consists of an insulating flexible backing which supports a metallic foil pattern. The gauge is attached to the object by a suitable adhesive, such as cyanoacrylate.

As the object is deformed, the foil is deformed, causing its electrical resistance to change. This resistance change, usually measured using a Wheatstone bridge, is related to the strain by the quantity known as the gauge factor.

This deformation stores the energy applied and acts like a spring. This energy has to be released somehow for the guage to be able to reset. In your setup this energy is fed back into the system and therefore cannot be considered output or work done.

Hans von Lieven