12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !

[hansvonlieven]

Hi Hans,
do you know, if this pump can draw up the water from 12 Meters deep?
...

No pump can. The theoretical maximum to which a pump can "draw" water is a little over 10 m assuming a perfect vacuum. Because water pumps generally can only create a partial vacuum and because of friction losses the practical maximum height is around 8 meters, even at that height pumps are not very efficient. These figures are for sea level. In elevated areas the figures are correspondingly less.

I will explain the physics if anyone is interested.

Hans von Lieven

[hartiberlin]

That?s interesting!
Assuming water density at 1000kg/m3 and g rounded at 10m/s2, it would take exactly 40W to pump 1200l/hr from 12m deep. That?s for an ideal pump, of course.

Several questions arise:
1. Is a normal adult person able to deliver 40-50W? I?d say it is, even with one finger in a clever setup, but not for prolonged times. 50W is, in common terms, lifting 5kg to 1m in every second. For how long one can keep up with this effort rate? It depends on physical constitution but this is actually testable and some figures might, in principle, be brought into discussion. On the other hand, classical pumps require a great deal of force (because of small displacement) to achieve the same power. Not everyone is able to apply force over a threshold (especially a child) but nonetheless maybe some are able to expend great amounts of energy (i.e. children running, playing etc. all day long) thus achieving a reasonable mean power over the considered time interval.

Hi Tini,
many thanks for your calculation.

You can already see from the video that the guy swinging the pendulum
is not using 50 Watts of human power..
In my opinion he is only using at maximum maybe 1 Watt of human power to push the pendulum,
if you compare lifting a 5 Kg weight to 1 Meter height in every second..
That would made him very tired very much faster...

So I would say that pump shows already at least an overunity factor of 5 !

Also it is not well built and shakes too much, which still lowers
the efficiency.
If the stand would have been build more solid,
so that it can not rock back and forth, the efficiency would be even higher...


Regards, Stefan.
P.S: Did you ever peddle on a bike that was connected to an electrical  generator with a light bulb
and saw how hard you have to peddle to generate 50 or 100 Watts ?
Almost impossible to do this longer than 10 to 20 seconds !

[hartiberlin]

Hi Hans,
do you know, if this pump can draw up the water from 12 Meters deep?
...

No pump can. The theoretical maximum to which a pump can "draw" water is a little over 10 m assuming a perfect vacuum. Because water pumps generally can only create a partial vacuum and because of friction losses the practical maximum height is around 8 meters, even at that height pumps are not very efficient. These figures are for sea level. In elevated areas the figures are correspondingly less.

I will explain the physics if anyone is interested.

Hans von Lieven

Okay, I see, what you mean, because of the normal air pressure,
so these pumps are laid into the 12 Meter deep water directly and pump the 12 Meters up then..
But then they consume probably more power, if you have 12 Meters to overcome.

At least I am convinced now that the shown Milkovic pump has at least an overunity
factor of 5.

[shruggedatlas]

At least I am convinced now that the shown Milkovic pump has at least an overunity
factor of 5.

I think the Milkovic pump clearly aids the individual by providing a mechanical advantage, allowing a person to apply a smaller force over a longer period of time, making the job less strenuous.  Are you sure about the overunity part?

If it is truly 5 times overunity, it should be a trivial matter to set it up to pump water into a container above itself, and then use the power of that water as it falls to run itself.  And this has never been shown.

[hartiberlin]

Well, I am pretty sure from this video.
It does not need much energy to start the
pendulum to swing and does not need much power to
keep it swinging...

Definately overunity.