Kapanadze and other FE discussion

[Hoppy]

To Hoppy.
http://www.nutsvolts.com/magazine/article/the_magnetic_amplifier
You must read that.
It was respond to lancalV link.

OK. You were referring to the MA DC bias current. What do you think would be the effect of using a pulsed HV DC bias current as I suggested in my earlier post- 2399?

[Void]

It appears I have a different perspective than at least some of you guys on this. I think that the energy
source may at least possibly be the surrounding 'ambient environment' as Kapanadze has said,
meaning not specifically drawing the extra energy from the ground in some sort of classical way (not a
classical electrical energy 'receiver'). What the exact mysterious energy source might be is anyone's guess however.
My view about this possibility is based on some observations of these type of setups, but also based on some
things I have observed in my experiments in the last two to three years as well.

I have mentioned that I have been experimenting on a setup that is not related to Kapanadze setups or similar,
and up till now I have not seen anything in my tests that would really suggest 'OU', but in the last few days
I tried a new variation, and with some new adjustments last night I see something that I will say is 'potentially interesting'.
I have been at this type of experimenting for quite a few years so I don't jump to any conclusions at all when
I see something in my testing that is showing something potentially interesting, but my latest test setup
is at least showing some *possible* potential. It is only very low power right now and I will need to investigate a lot
further to see if I can scale this 'effect' up with the eventual goal of trying to make the setup self-looped. The power
output is just too low right now to try to self loop it.

Basically I am testing with a 12V 5AH SLA battery and only powering a very small load that measures total
battery power draw of about 19mW (I know a very tiny load for 5AH battery ), but the voltage on the battery
has not dropped below 13.20V for about 12 hours of continuous running so far. I have been using this type
of SLA battery in my testing for several years and I know those batteries will normally quite quickly fall
below 12.9V even when powering such a small load,  even with some energy feedback to the battery.

My current test setup has feedback back to the battery as well, but it is holding (so far) at 13.20V. I know
what specific changes I made to get this new type of result. It is way too early to say if my latest test setup is
really drawing in some 'extra energy' or not however, (and as we all know, chances are it isn't), but the results so
far are at least interesting.

The setup does not rely on any earth ground to work. I am making no assumptions here about OU whatsoever
as it is way too early to try to draw any conclusions, (I know better than that ), but the reason I am mentioning
all this is this setup is testing a specific type of approach to try to draw in extra energy into the system, and
it has nothing to do with drawing in extra energy from the ground. If by some small chance it really is drawing
in extra energy from outside my test setup, then it is not coming from the ground. It would have to
be coming from the 'ambient', whatever that might be.

Question for Hoppy or anyone else with an electronics background or experience with opto isolators: 
I am using opto isolated Mosfets (opto isolators driving the gates) to try to avoid any potential coupling
of energy from the Mosfet driving circuitry (energy coupling from the gate drivers to the drain/source).
In your experience/estimation, could any energy still couple from the gate drivers to the Mosfet
drain/source if I am using opto isolators to drive the gates of the Mosfets I am using? One possible source for
extra energy in my test setup might of course be the gate drivers if the opto isolators can still capacitively
couple energy from the driver circuitry through the opto isolators to the drain/source side of the Mosfets.
However, if energy could be coupled through an opto isolator that way, it would kind of defeat the
purpose of an opto isolator completely isolating the gate driving circuitry from the transistor itself, no?
The operating frequency for the mosfets in my test is below 100 Hz, so any coupling due to capacitance from the
gate driving circuitry to the mosfets should be small anyway at below 100 Hz, I would think anyway.
Any feedback on this from anyone with experience with opto isolators will be appreciated.

[Hoppy]

Question for Hoppy or anyone else with an electronics background or experience with opto isolators: 
I am using opto isolated Mosfets (opto isolators driving the gates) to try to avoid any potential coupling
of energy from the Mosfet driving circuitry (energy coupling from the gate drivers to the drain/source).
In your experience/estimation, could any energy still couple from the gate drivers to the Mosfet
drain/source if I am using opto isoaltors on the gates of the Mosfets I am using? One possible source for
extra energy in my test setup might of course be the gate drivers if the opto isolators can still capacitively
couple energy from the driver circuitry through the opto isolators to the drain/source side of the Mosfets.
However, if energy could be coupled through an opto isolator that way, it would kind of defeat the
purpose of an opto isolator completely isolating the gate driving circuitry from the transistor itself, no?
The current frequency for the mosfets is below 100 Hz, so any coupling due to capacitance from the
gate driving circuitry to the mosfets should be small anyway at below 100 Hz, I would think anyway.

Hi Void,
I would hope not given their electrical isolation spec!
In regards to your experiment, as you will probably appreciate it is very unlikely that even if you use the same battery, intervals between tests will alter results. This is why, if you recall, that JB best practice test guidelines were to always condition LA batteries over a number of cycles before doing a number of load tests (at least 10), then averaging the results on the number of load tests conducted. Comparing results with long time intervals between them, despite using identical test setups, when using LA batteries, especially SLABS, is not good science in my opinion.

[Belfior]

It appears I have a different perspective than at least some of you guys on this. I think that the energy
source may at least possibly be the surrounding 'ambient environment' as Kapanadze has said,
meaning not specifically drawing the extra energy from the ground in some sort of classical way (not a
classical electrical energy 'receiver'). What the exact mysterious energy source might be is anyone's guess however.
My view about this possibility is based on some observations of these type of setups, but also based on some
things I have observed in my experiments in the last two to three years as well.

I have mentioned that I have been experimenting on a setup that is not related to Kapanadze setups or similar,
and up till now I have not seen anything in my tests that would really suggest 'OU', but in the last few days
I tried a new variation, and with some new adjustments last night I see something that I will say is 'potentially interesting'.
I have been at this type of experimenting for quite a few years so I don't jump to any conclusions at all when
I see something in my testing that is showing something potentially interesting, but my latest test setup
is at least showing some *possible* potential. It is only very low power right now and I will need to investigate a lot
further to see if I can scale this 'effect' up with the eventual goal of trying to make the setup self-looped. The power
output is just too low right now to try to self loop it.

Basically I am testing with a 12V 5AH SLA battery and only powering a very small load that measures total
battery power draw of about 19mW (I know a very tiny load for 5AH battery ), but the voltage on the battery
has not dropped below 13.20V for about 12 hours of continuous running so far. I have been using this type
of SLA battery in my testing for several years and I know those batteries will normally quite quickly fall
below 12.9V even when powering such a small load,  even with some energy feedback to the battery.

My current test setup has feedback back to the battery as well, but it is holding (so far) at 13.20V. I know
what specific changes I made to get this new type of result. It is way too early to say if my latest test setup is
really drawing in some 'extra energy' or not however, (and as we all know, chances are it isn't), but the results so
far are at least interesting.

The setup does not rely on any earth ground to work. I am making no assumptions here about OU whatsoever
as it is way too early to try to draw any conclusions, (I know better than that ), but the reason I am mentioning
all this is this setup is testing a specific type of approach to try to draw in extra energy into the system, and
it has nothing to do with drawing in extra energy from the ground. If by some small chance it really is drawing
in extra energy from outside my test setup, then it is not coming from the ground. It would have to
be coming from the 'ambient', whatever that might be.

Question for Hoppy or anyone else with an electronics background or experience with opto isolators: 
I am using opto isolated Mosfets (opto isolators driving the gates) to try to avoid any potential coupling
of energy from the Mosfet driving circuitry (energy coupling from the gate drivers to the drain/source).
In your experience/estimation, could any energy still couple from the gate drivers to the Mosfet
drain/source if I am using opto isolators to drive the gates of the Mosfets I am using? One possible source for
extra energy in my test setup might of course be the gate drivers if the opto isolators can still capacitively
couple energy from the driver circuitry through the opto isolators to the drain/source side of the Mosfets.
However, if energy could be coupled through an opto isolator that way, it would kind of defeat the
purpose of an opto isolator completely isolating the gate driving circuitry from the transistor itself, no?
The operating frequency for the mosfets in my test is below 100 Hz, so any coupling due to capacitance from the
gate driving circuitry to the mosfets should be small anyway at below 100 Hz, I would think anyway.
Any feedback on this from anyone with experience with opto isolators will be appreciated.

This is very interesting, since in my perspective you cannot get extra energy using classical methods. Like how I see a transformer is that L1 agitates the ambient and as a result you get energy in L2. The problem here is that in L1 you return the energy to the negative rail and it destroys the source. So L2 is free energy minus some resistances or what ever and it can't ever go over what L1 was taking.

You might not see the same as I do or you might claim I'm just full of bullshit, but maybe you can admit that just by changing the perspective you can now see a transformer in a new light AND you are already using free energy. So the OU question is how to agitate L1 without destroying the source?

[Void]

Hi Void,
I would hope not given their electrical isolation spec!
In regards to your experiment, as you will probably appreciate it is very unlikely that even if you use the same battery, intervals between tests will alter results. This is why, if you recall, that JB best practice test guidelines were to always condition LA batteries over a number of cycles before doing a number of load tests (at least 10), then averaging the results on the number of load tests conducted. Comparing results with long time intervals between them, despite using identical test setups, when using LA batteries, especially SLABS, is not good science in my opinion.

Hi Hoppy. Thanks for the feedback. Regarding the SLA's, perhaps, but sometimes you just have to
be practical however. Little SLA batteries are very convenient for doing bench testing where you
want to try to feed back energy from the circuit being driven back to the supply battery. I have been
testing with these same SLA batteries for several years now and I know their characteristics quite well now
at different current draws. Even with very small current draws these small 5AH SLA batteries
will always drop from their rest voltage down to about 12.9V at least within about an hour or so, if not quicker,
depending on the exact current draw, and then continue to fall from there at a slower rate. I do know
for sure that the SLA battery I am testing with holding at 13.20V for over 12 hours now with a
measured current draw of just below 1.5 mA on an analog ammeter with a 10mA full scale, is at least out
of the ordinary for these batteries, and I have done a lot of testing over the last few years with these same batteries.
At any rate I am not attempting to draw any sort of conclusions at all yet, as I have mentioned. I am currently
looking for possible mundane sources of 'extra energy' into my test setup that uses opto isolated mosfets , so that is
why I was asking for opinions on the the opto isolators, for example.

Something else to keep in mind here about lead acid batteries is that their charge and discharge efficiencies
are apparently rated at around 50% to 90%, depending on the exact lead acid battery type and how new the
lead acid battery is, and the operating conditions, etc., so when current is drawn from a LA battery there
is energy loss in the internal resistance in the battery, and energy is also lost when charging a LA battery as well.
I think it is not overstepping too much to say that a 5AH lead acid battery holding at 13.20V after 12 hours with a
measured average current draw of about 1.5 mA isn't too bad, even if it has nothing to do with OU, which
the chances are. At any rate, it will be interesting to see if this current test setup continues to hold at 13.20V
for much longer, or if it starts to fall off soon.

Hi Belfior:
I have an open mind. I have actually considered and looked into many things over the last several years.
Don Smith was the first I personally came across to throw around ideas about drawing in energy from the ambient.
I have tested many different approaches over the years just to get a better understanding of how different
arrangements really perform in practice. Often, certain approaches outlined in forums like this don't work at all
as claimed when you actually test them and put them through their paces. The main problem is this, all circuit
components have losses. Batteries have internal resistance as well so batteries have losses just from drawing
current from a battery. Capacitors, diodes, and transformers and even air core coils and have losses, as well
as active devices like transistors as well. Loads connected to the secondary of a transformer reflect back to the
primary side for all intents and purposes, and thus increase the overall power consumption. This is why some people
have tried to build specially wound 'lenzless' transformer designs, but from what I have seen that approach
has not proven successful, at least from what I have seen. Lenz law describes why a coil or wire acts as a coil
or wire, so beating Lenz law seems to not make sense to me. To achieve OU, we have to overcome all sorts of
losses in our circuit setups, so the only way I can see that happening is to be able to draw in extra energy from
outside your test setup. This would have to be quite considerable to overcome all circuit losses in a typical scenario
I think. It is therefore not an easy task by any means, IMO.

P.S. An update on my test setup. Just measured the battery voltage and it has now finally dropped 0.01V
down to 13.19V. Not bad I think considering the battery's unloaded rest voltage after charging and then sitting for
a while was around 13.28V. This is the best results I have had with this type of setup so far, so I seem
to at least be making some small improvements in overall efficiency. Based on these latest results I
think it is worth my putting in more effort to try to improve performance further and to try to scale it
up to higher power. I typically only have some time on weekends lately to work on it, so it will
move along slowly. It's a time consuming process... It can take a lot of thinking and work and testing, etc.
just to make tiny gains in efficiency. Not saying anything at all about OU, just working on trying to make
improvements to the overall efficiency.