Bifilar pancake coil overunity experiment

[onepower]

F6FLT

But with the bifilar coil connected as specified in reply #153, the resonance drops to 28Khz.
I have tried many LTspice simulations to get an equivalent circuit. The only LTspice simulation that fits what I observe needs the inductance (not the capacitance) to be multiplied by 5000.

Right... lose the simulator it's useless. Real experiments done by real people produce real results.

It's indeed impossible to reach a so low resonance with values as small as 55nf and 84.8nH. The schematic is very simple but problematic. Did I miss something? (Otherwise imho it's useless to play with bifilar coils until we obtain an explanation for this elementary result).

Impossible you say?.
It may help to go over some high school science textbook theory.

Let's imagine we have two wires in close proximity in a Bifilar Pancake coil where the end of the first conductor is connected to the beginning of the second conductor. If we send a quick spike of current down the first conductor we can expect that a Cemf will be induced in the second conductor as per Faraday's Law of Induction. However if the voltage rise is very fast then all kinds of transient effects can occur as we know. Now what do you think will happen if the two conductors in close proximity, in effect, constitute a capacitance?. Well we know what will happen and the capacitance will absorb and store the energy as a function of the difference in potential between the two conductors at that point between the conductors and the dielectric properties of the insulation... a capacitor.

Thus the reason none of this makes any sense to you is because you probably simulated a rather low frequency/low voltage sine wave, lol. I mean you could not have possibly done anything more pointless because this has no effect. Understand Tesla's patent was a way to store transient energy producing voltage spikes due to an absurd induced Cemf/voltage rise in the capacitance between the coil turns. A buffering capacitor built internal into the coil storing the difference in potential between each individual turn.

So let's ask the question... how many coil technologies have you seen which can counter a Cemf and absorb transient energy spikes on a cm per turn, non-lumped sum, basis... fucking zero is your answer.

Tesla didn't design his coil for low frequency sine waves he designed it for high voltage, extreme rise/fall time square waves which generate massive transient effects. This coil was designed for what we call a worst case scenario not sine waves. It was designed for square waves with a wave "period" not frequency much shorter than the length of the conductor. Which is the reason your lumped sum simulator is about as useful as tits on a boar.

Your completely out of your element here, imagine a long rope and I give it a quick snap producing a single wave travelling along it's length like a soliton wave. Now imagine if at any point the rope touches the ground energy is stored... this is the transient energy stored as capacitance(a difference in potential) at that singular point. However it is a conductor thus the energy stored at that point must conduct or move along the conductor ... the question is where and in what direction.

What your trying to do is understand joe blow down the street by looking at the Earth from the moon. Obviously it's all just water and continents and shit with no detail but your looking and thinking it's relevant... but no it's not. The context is so far removed from the truth it becomes a lesson in stupidity.

[ayeaye]

What your trying to do is understand joe blow down the street by looking at the Earth from the moon.

Yeah i read one time what you wrote, didn't understand. Read second time, still didn't understand. Read several times more, and still don't understand. You like go on saying that it's all so clear and rational, but trying to find in what this clarity and rationality is, cannot find it.

That in a bifilar coil a part of the induction goes to charging the capacitance, yes i thought it's so. Then this capacitance discharges, giving the energy out again i guess. So much i can figure.

[onepower]

ayeaye

Yeah i read one time what you wrote, didn't understand. Read second time, still didn't understand. Read several times more, and still don't understand. You like go on saying that it's all so clear and rational, but trying to find in what this clarity and rationality is, cannot find it.

I would ask... if 1 billion people believed that no man could possibly jump higher than 2.45 m would you believe them?. It seems impossible doesn't it? , I mean eight feet and one quarter inches and yet one man did it proving billions and billions of people wrong. The lesson here is simple, that man who in fact jumped over 8 feet and one quarter inches into the air and cleared that bar... was not you or me.

Should we presume just because we cannot do something that it cannot be done?. If this belief or construct were the case then no person could possibly know more or do more than we could. We would be all knowing all seeing god of sorts which is a special kind of messed up in my opinion because we are only human just like everyone else.

So yes I believe you and others do not understand many things I do however I may not understand many things you do.

[ayeaye]

The lesson here is simple, that man who in fact jumped over 8 feet and one quarter inches into the air and cleared that bar... was not you.

That's ok. You see as i said, the native americans didn't see the big ships of the spanish, in spite they were clearly visible. The unknown plays tricks with us. Thus the only sensible way is to just go ahead, and do measurements.

The most right would likely be, with a floating scope, to have ground between the coil and the resistor, and measure the voltage on the coil and on the resistor, with the channel for the resistor inverted. Be careful with a floating scope as i said. But there i guess, the voltage on the coil should be in phase with the voltage on the signal generator, all sines too, though subtracting one sine from the other is not exactly sine? Anyway, very similar to sine, when the other voltage is small, like just for measuring current. What i can figure.

Sine they say is the simplest, but sine is not at all simplest for induction, it is a quite complicated case. Simplest is a positive square pulse, i think. But no phi there.

[F6FLT]

My guess is that because of the capacitance, some of the induction happens Lenz free, and this enables very high inductance. This conjecture is just intuitive, not really thought through at all. But the matter is that there seems to be by now no better explanation.
...

I can't follow you on that point. If there was no Lenz effect, there would be no induction either. The induction law if the effect of moving electrons in a first circuit which creates the changing magnetic field onto electrons in a second circuit (circuits or current loops from electron spins if we deal with permanent magnets).
When the electrons of the second circuit begin to move, the induction law still applies, they have also an influence onto the electrons of the first circuit because same cause products same effect. Lenz's law is a name (in tribute to the name of the discoverer) we use arbitrarily for the induction law when we observe the reciprocal effect. But the induction law is only linked to the relative speed between moving electrons and there is no preferential viewpoint, we can take the electrons of the first circuit or the second. It's also explainable by relativity.