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Overunity Machines Forum



AC voltage from single magnetic pole

Started by nix85, October 04, 2020, 10:16:36 PM

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0 Members and 6 Guests are viewing this topic.

nix85

Quote from: verpies

Why do you think that "the current lagging voltage in an inductor" is relevant to case of a permanent magnet moving across a simple air core coil, as in this video, which was the subject of our discussion ?

bla bla

It is not relevant for the video cause coil in the video has small inductance, i wrote clearly that i'm referring to your ideal coil fantasy.

For that it is not only relevant but essential, yet you never happened to mention it, hmm.

verpies

Quote from: nix85 on October 08, 2020, 07:18:01 PM
It is not relevant for the video cause coil in the video has small inductance, i wrote clearly that i'm referring to your ideal coil fantasy.
For that it is not only relevant but essential, yet you never happened to mention it, hmm.
So tell me why I should have mentioned it or why do you think that "the current lagging voltage in an inductor" is relevant to the case of a permanent magnet moving across an air core coil with zero resistance ?

nix85

Quote from: verpies on October 08, 2020, 07:30:44 PM
So tell me why I should have mentioned it or why do you think that "the current lagging voltage in an inductor" is relevant to the case of a permanent magnet moving across an air core coil with zero resistance ?

Go watch your little animation again and you will notice current only starts to move when magnet stops to move. What do you think is that mysterious delay. The essential point.

verpies

Quote from: nix85 on October 08, 2020, 07:42:05 PM
Go watch your little animation again and you will notice current only starts to move when magnet stops to move.
No, the current "moves" anytime the magnet tries to change the amount* of flux penetrating the sc loop. The current also moves while the magnet is still moving, alebeit slower.

Quote from: nix85 on October 08, 2020, 07:42:05 PM
What do you think is that mysterious delay. The essential point.
The current also moves while the magnet is still moving, albeit slower... so this means there is NO DELAY !

I will even go even further and write that in that sc loop, the magnitude of the current does not depend on the speed of the magnet at all. 
For example in this animation, if you held that magnet inside that sc loop with your hand, so that it is stationary, then the current would circulate in that sc loop at constant magnitude ...as long as you hold that magnet there. ...and in this animation - as you hold the magnet outside of the loop, because of the different position of the magnet (and amount of its flux penetrating the loop) at the instant when the loop became shorted.

Quote from: nix85 on October 08, 2020, 07:42:05 PM
I'll give you another hint, inductance is inversely proportional to resistance. Still no lamps on?
No, because resistance is inversely proportional to conductance not to inductance.

Quote from: nix85 on October 08, 2020, 07:42:05 PM
Go watch your little animation again
But I asked you why you think that "the current lagging voltage in an inductor" is relevant to the case of a permanent magnet moving across an air core coil with zero resistance.
I did not ask you what I should do to guess why you think that.

Actually, I am surprised that you sent me back to prof. Belchers animation, because earlier you stated that it is misleading.
Quote from: nix85 on October 06, 2020, 08:07:36 AMYou are wrong. Like i said, your confusion is rooted in that misleading animation. Again, the only difference in ideal inductor is that voltage will lead by 90° degrees just like current will for purely capacitive circuit.



* That change is relative to the amount of flux that happened to penetrate the loop at the instant it became shorted.

nix85

Quote from: verpies on October 08, 2020, 07:52:31 PM
No, the current "moves" anytime the magnet tries to change the amount* of flux penetrating the sc loop. The current also moves while the magnet is still moving, alebeit slower.

Wrong.

Quote
The current also moves while the magnet is still moving, albeit slower... so this means there is NO DELAY !

In ideal inductor delay will always be exactly 90°.

Quote
I will even go further and write that in that sc loop, the magnitude of the current does not depend on the speed of the magnet at all.  For example if you held that magnet inside that sc loop with your hand, so that it is still, then the current would circulate in that sc loop at constant magnitude.

You can as well claim that you been to the Moon.

Quote
No, because resistance is inversely proportional to conductance not to inductance.
* The amount of flux that happened to penetrate the loop at the instant it became shorted.

I meant energy stored by coil's inductance is inversely proportional to resistance. More current flows through a coil more energy it stores and bigger the EMF spike upon sudden stopping of current.

Point being, you deny the basic law of physics that in purely inductive circuit current will always lag voltage by 90°. This is the school definition of ideal inductor.

Do you realize how silly it is to deny this. Do you realize ordinary transformer has almost 90° phase shift and that tiny aberration is due to resistance, without it it would have pure 90° phase shift.