Do commercial motors/generators produce eddies, why do builders build their own?

[AllanV]

In that case, I think I answered your question. In commercial electric machinery it is a loss mechanism which is managed by design to levels of a few percent of rated power and in very large machines, to a fraction of a percent of converted power.

In other applications it is a desired effect such as Eddy current brakes/retarders used on trucks and large machinery.

Regards,
bi

Hi,

Having done some work on this problem there are a few observations that lead along a path to improvement.
The efficiency is actually very poor because generators are built incorrectly and suffer from the same problem as motors.

Overall efficiency from hydro generator, the electricity grid, to work done by a motor is less than 1%.
By calculation it can be shown for a particular job it would take 10000 tonnes of water through a turbine to turn the generator to move 9tonnes of aggregate up a hill in a certain time with an electric motor.

If an E I core is opened up to act as a solenoid and the winding energized with a low voltage DC current the I is attracted. When the current is turned off the I will remain attracted to the E for some noticeable time before it separates.

The electric current produces a magnetic attraction (circuit) that continues after the electric current has stopped. It leaks away slowly.

Much more voltage is required than actually necessary.

By studying transformer action it became apparent what the answer is.

Allan


 

[NdaClouDzzz]

There is only one rule in public overunity forums, if you have a looped/completely-self-powered device, you just don't upload it or detail it,  since everyone agrees that ownership of these devices must be kept to an absolute minimum, and definitely must not be owned by those who cannot build one or even fully understand how they work.

OU members must be busy today.

[bistander]

Hi,

Having done some work on this problem there are a few observations that lead along a path to improvement.
The efficiency is actually very poor because generators are built incorrectly and suffer from the same problem as motors.

Overall efficiency from hydro generator, the electricity grid, to work done by a motor is less than 1%.
By calculation it can be shown for a particular job it would take 10000 tonnes of water through a turbine to turn the generator to move 9tonnes of aggregate up a hill in a certain time with an electric motor.

If an E I core is opened up to act as a solenoid and the winding energized with a low voltage DC current the I is attracted. When the current is turned off the I will remain attracted to the E for some noticeable time before it separates.

The electric current produces a magnetic attraction (circuit) that continues after the electric current has stopped. It leaks away slowly.

Much more voltage is required than actually necessary.

By studying transformer action it became apparent what the answer is.

Allan

Hi Allan,
What you claim about the pumped water example is not due to inefficiency of the electric dynamos (motor and generator). Pumped hydro is a legitimate method of grid scale energy buffering or storage with efficiencies comparable to other methods like batteries and is considered where terrain is favorable.

Your example of the steel attraction to the electromagnet after it is de energized sounds like simple residual magnetism. The effect would be more pronounced using a harder iron (magnetically speaking) rather than transformer laminations which which are magnetically soft to minimize hysteresis core loss.

If you feel can improve current electromechanical energy conversion technology, go for it. I feel you're mistaken about generators and motors suffering some problem due to being built wrong. But you're entitled to opinion.

Regards,
bi

[onepower]

Unsure
As shown in the eddy current drag video I posted almost all the energy to turn a loaded generator is to overcome eddy current forces. Note that whenever they dropped the magnet through an air core coil with a load attached the magnet experienced a braking action. This shows us the drag is produced from the circular current in the turns of the coil opposing the magnet. The drag effect is present whether an iron core is present or not.

This is the reason why loaded generators take so much input power to turn them. This also led to the assumption that the input is always proportional to the output or COP < 1.

However as we know some creative inventors have found a way to work around this braking effect.

Regards

[bistander]

Unsure
As shown in the eddy current drag video I posted almost all the energy to turn a loaded generator is to overcome eddy current forces.
<snip>

Hi onepower,
I've never heard the forces (usually expressed as torque) resulting from load current in a generator called "eddy current forces". Lorentz force is the term commonly used for source of the primary shaft torque.
Regards,
bi