Build 2

[onepower]

Johnsmith

Bessler said that as one weight moved away from the axle that another weight moved towards it.

I took a crack at the Milkovic dual pendulum and the Bessler wheel around ten years ago but it never panned out.

The Milkovic dual pendulum produces a beat note on the lever between the pendulums. So as side A increases its swing side B decreases and vice versa. I also found any chaotic input is absorbed into the resonant frequency within a few beats. I used a 24" lever, two 12" pendulums with 4 lb weights all on 1/4" ball bearings. Learned a lot about pendulums and resonance...

The Bessler wheel is still an enigma. I found with levers, pulleys and gears the force-distance from center rule applies. However many inventors of the past referred to a universal movement just as Bessler did. It relates to a kind of motion within any field (Electric, Magnetic, Gravic) which has the ability to extract energy from it. That is a kind of motion or process which can occur within a uniform gradient where the result is non-uniform.

It may relate to what I call the levered lever whereby the weight does not move but it's weight distribution or center of mass does. Here we need to be careful because the "weight" can move but it's referring to the property of the mass not the mass in itself. That is an apparent motion without a physical one by displacing the center of mass. To move the weight without moving the weights...

It's quite a mystery and I revisit the concept every now and then as I learn new things.

Regards
AC

[Johnsmith]

Johnsmith
I took a crack at the Milkovic dual pendulum and the Bessler wheel around ten years ago but it never panned out.

The Milkovic dual pendulum produces a beat note on the lever between the pendulums. So as side A increases its swing side B decreases and vice versa. I also found any chaotic input is absorbed into the resonant frequency within a few beats. I used a 24" lever, two 12" pendulums with 4 lb weights all on 1/4" ball bearings. Learned a lot about pendulums and resonance...

The Bessler wheel is still an enigma. I found with levers, pulleys and gears the force-distance from center rule applies. However many inventors of the past referred to a universal movement just as Bessler did. It relates to a kind of motion within any field (Electric, Magnetic, Gravic) which has the ability to extract energy from it. That is a kind of motion or process which can occur within a uniform gradient where the result is non-uniform.

It may relate to what I call the levered lever whereby the weight does not move but it's weight distribution or center of mass does. Here we need to be careful because the "weight" can move but it's referring to the property of the mass not the mass in itself. That is an apparent motion without a physical one by displacing the center of mass. To move the weight without moving the weights...

It's quite a mystery and I revisit the concept every now and then as I learn new things.

Regards
AC

  As you said (and it is what everyone is taught);
"I found with levers, pulleys and gears the force-distance from center rule applies."

The disc is not a part of the wheel. It doesn't move because the wheel, its levers, pulleys etc. move or rotate.
The disc is considered an outside force (resistance which can be measured in ohms in an electrical circuit) just
as the Earth's gravity (g = G(m/r^2)) of 9.81 m/s is an outside force.

This is the basic principle that I believe Bessler used. If you notice the weight wheel moving towards the axle, watch from 17 seconds to 22 seconds,
no part of the wheel is moving it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=935Ktoxw1fM

And this violates math. This is because the lines attached to the weight wheel and the fulcrum remain the same length. This
is where liking math actually helps. This is because you have line segment A - Z which is x inches/cm long. Then you can ask
"How can you shorten the distance between points A and Z while the line segment A - Z stays the same length?". And if a person
isn't familiar with math then this will be a problem. This is because they won't understand how to solve such a simple problem.
That's where learning to understand that is up to the person. And this is where a basic graph like the unit circle wheel can help.
The radius is always considered to be 1 unless otherwise stated. The distance from the point of origin to (-1,0) to Pi is (1, 0).
The length of Pi is PiR (πr) ( which is 3.142 * 1 = 3.142. Yet the shortest distance between A and Z is 2.  With Pi and r, they are a ratio.
The radius determines the values of both Pi and r because r is the radius. And the length of 1/2 of a circle is πr.
And I have studied a lot of math so this is just getting into the basics. If someone hasn't spent time learning math, then this will be
new to them. It is what it is.

p.s., with this image, some might say it isn't graphed yet it uses (x, y) coordinates. It's that it's formula isn't shown. That basic
expression is factored as a sinx (a/b + c) + d.

And the shortest distance from (-1, 0) to (1, 0) is 2. The circumference of 1/2 of the circle is πr or 3.142 x 1 = 3.142.  The shortest
distance is 3.142 - 2 = 1.142 shorter than the length of 1/2 of the circle. This is the role the retraction disc or what Bessler called
a drum plays in the design. It's actually π/2 = 1.57 for every 1 unit of its radius.
If a person can't understand this then they need a math tutor and that's not something that I have the time for. 

And once I demonstrate a working wheel, I will walk away from this. I will say that AB Hammer was my teacher because he is a Christian.
He is a teacher and even Stefan Hartmann acknowledges that Christians are our shepherds. AB Hammer does know what the Bible says.
That is why he is well liked. And so everything I say and do is in the name of AB Hammer. And only AB Hammer can say what it is that I
am building. Is it a perpetual wheel or not and whose wheel is it if it is a wheel? AB Hammer's or Bessler's? I can't say I know.
As AB Hammer said, all I know is how to worker and that workers need a good shepherd.

[onepower]

Johnsmith

As you said (and it is what everyone is taught);
"I found with levers, pulleys and gears the force-distance from center rule applies."

The disc is not a part of the wheel. It doesn't move because the wheel, its levers, pulleys etc. move or rotate.
The disc is considered an outside force (resistance which can be measured in ohms in an electrical circuit) just
as the Earth's gravity (g = G(m/r^2)) of 9.81 m/s is an outside force.

I would agree and Bessler said as much, he claimed the wheel or circular outer form was not even needed and was simply a means to hide the inner workings. Quote: "My wheel revolves, but without other wheels inside or outside". As such we can deduce that the inner mechanisms could be a stand alone unit and take almost any form.

Is it really a wheel? For it does not have a normal rim. Rim that you see is just to hide the mechanism. If I uncover it you
would then ask whether this is really a wheel. My wheel revolves, but without other wheels inside or outside, and without
weights, wind or springs. When my wheel seen sideways or full-face it is as bright as a peacockÂ's tail. It turns to the
right and the left; it spins around in either direction, laden or empty. – Bessler (Ramananda,
"Dialogues at the Castle of Weissenstein")

Here we could also deduce Bessler's system is not a wheel but a system of coordinated levers and other mechanisms.

The levers loaded with heavy weights as viewed from the side, may be compared to side views of
many children playing with very heavy clubs among tall broken columns. The strongest of the children
cannot lift the lightest of the clubs. Still, each child can swing (or you might call it "step" as it uses a club
as a "leg") from the top of one broken column to the top of the next broken column by positioning his heavy
club on the ground between the two close columns and holding on to the handle end to swing over to the top
of the next column.
Then he rotates the handle end of his club to maneuver it between his current column and
his next intended column so that he can again "step" or swing a small angle over to the top of the next intended
broken column. If the clubs are even heavier by being double-ended, then instead of rolling them to the next
position, they may be alternatively transported between the columns by switching ends.
A double club may be moved in seesaw fashion by leaning it against the current broken column that the child is
on and rolling it over the top of the column (assuming that there is enough room for the child to stay on top of the column).
The double club is pivoted with a circular motion with one end going up while the other end goes down.
– Bessler (Ramananda, "Dialogues at the Castle of Weissenstein")

Here Bessler mentions the "universal movement" which many other inventors also made claims to.

"Unlike all other automata, such as clocks or springs, or other hanging weights which require winding up,
or whose duration depends on the chain which attaches them, these weights, on the contrary, are the essential parts,
and constitute the perpetual motion itself; since from them is received the universal movement which they must
exercise so long as they remain out of the centre of gravity; and when they come to be placed together, and so
arranged one against another that they can never obtain equilibrium, or the punctum quietus which they unceasingly
seek in their wonderfully speedy flight, one or other of them must apply its weight at right angles to the axis,
which in its turn must also move."
- Bessler, 1717

I have been working on this problem for some time and found, as is often the case, that most of the information on the internet is hearsay. If we look at the real literature by Bessler it's not even a wheel but a machine most likely designed to alter the center of gravity of the masses in such a way they can never find equilibrium. This is the true nature of the problem and anything else comes after the fact in my opinion.

We should never make a problem any more or less complex than it needs to be with respect to finding a solution...

Regards
AC

[Johnsmith]

 As onepower quoted Bessler;
My wheel revolves, but without other wheels inside or outside, and without weights, wind or springs.

Then Bessler said;
The levers loaded with heavy weights as viewed from the side, may be compared to side views of
many children playing with very heavy clubs among tall broken columns.

This is why Stefan and AB Hammer are Christians. They pray and wait for someone to be the answer
to their prayers that accepts their Christian leadership. After all, Bessler said he did not use weights
and yet he uses heavy weights.

And in all these years no one has considered using math. I think I am the only person who understood
that to understand Bessler's maschinen tractate https://besslerwheel.com/writings.html math is needed.
In Bessler's other writings, Apologia Poetica he apologizes for having destroyed his wheel and says that he will
shower people with words. In his Das Triumphirende Perpetuum Mobile Orffyreanum he explains why he was
successful.
Everyone at besslerwheel.com does not understand what those 3 writings represent. And I think it is because they're
not familiar with mechanical engineering and math.  It would be interesting to know what the Grundlicher Bericht (Thorough Report)
- Kassel, 1715 is about but the other 3 explain everything. And I have shown where math matters. It lets me know that everything
else that Bessler wrote is for people who like puzzles. And after I finish my build and it works then people can consider what it all means.
And for what Bessler built, is it just what I'll show or is there something more to be realized?

[onepower]

Johnsmith

As onepower quoted Bessler;
My wheel revolves, but without other wheels inside or outside, and without weights, wind or springs.

I believe when Bessler said "without weights, wind or springs" he was referring to mechanisms commonly found in clocks which power them. As you say, in other places he claims the device does use eight heavy weights.

It's quite a mystery and a very interesting problem. I hope someone does solve it some day...

Regards
AC