Magnetic flux motor just patented that creates it's own electricity!

[tinman]

Hi Brad,
Well said.
Does the first sentence (my bold) equate to say magnetic flux is not a flow? I get a lot of flack when I tell people that.
Thanks,
bi

That is correct.
Magnetic flux or fields are not a flow of anything.
People have been indoctrinate by the pretty pictures showing arrows in magnetic fields, and think that something is actually flowing in a magnetic field/flux.

Brad

[tinman]

Faraday and Lorentz would be dissapointed to learn: 

"a magnetic field does not induce a current flow in an conductor!" Well, maybe if it's static, of course.

Me too...

Is there somewhere that either person said that it is actually the magnetic field it self that induces current flow ?
How could this be, when we all (well most i would have thought), know that it is the electric field that is the force that moves the electrons/charges, and those moving electrons are what creates a current flow, and that current flow creates a magnetic field around the inductor.

I mean, just think about it. We pass say the north end of a magnet across a conductor, where that magnet has a uniform magnetic field around it's pole, spreading out evenly to both the left and right of the conductor at the point where we pass the magnet across it. How are the electrons going to know which way to flow, when the field across the conductor is the same in both directions ?

But, the electric field that accompanies the moving/changing magnetic field, has a force that is at right angles to the magnetic field, which just so happens to be on the same plane as the conductor. Aint that a hoot.

Quote: If a coil of wire is placed in a changing magnetic field, a current will be induced in the wire.  This current flows because !something is producing an electric field that forces the charges around the wire!.  (It cannot be the magnetic force since the charges are not initially moving).  This "something" is called an electromotive force, or emf, even though it is not a force.  Instead, emf is like the voltage provided by a battery.  A changing magnetic field through a coil of wire therefore must induce an emf in the coil which in turn causes current to flow.

Brad

[SolarLab]

Hi Brad,

Not sure if this will help but I addressed this a while back in this post:

https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=4261.msg98564#msg98564

Might be hard to wrap your head around - for me it was anyway! Was trying to figure out a way to "figure it out"!
--------------------------------

Sorry for the long post but this is very important towards understanding (analyzing) Holcomb's and other devices.

Two Electromagnetic Equations - Yield the Same Results

Of the four laws of electromagnetism, let's consider only Lorentz Force and Faraday's Law of induction. They both arrive at the same answer; but their mechanisms are different. Some may say Faraday's Law is associated with Lenz whereas Lorentz is not - Faraday deals with an alternating magnetic field - Lorentz deals with a sweeping (traveling) magnetic field.

Review the earlier "Asymetric transformers - AAbramovich Discussions" section "Equivalence of induction according to Lorentz and Faraday" and the information below. Note that the differences between Faraday and Lorentz were never really resolved - history - seems Einstein got in the way - since he couldn't solve it, he started a new branch of physics - Special Relativity - and further attempts at a resolution faded. Lots of reading but worth it!

Four Laws of Electromagnetism

https://www.motioncontroltips.com/four-laws-of-electromagnetism-you-should-know/

https://www.vanderbilt.edu/AnS/physics/panvini/p110a/lect37c.html

Why Faraday's law and Lorentz force create the same electromotive force?

The Faraday's induction formula (flux rule) of electromagnetism says that the electromotive force (emf) created in a conducting circuit is equal to the rate at which the magnetic flux through the conducting circuit changes as it is written on a high school text in physics. This emf can be calculated in two ways: either by using the Lorentz force formula and calculating the force acting on electrons in the moving conductor of the circuit; or via one of Maxwell's equations (Faraday's law) and calculating the change of the magnetic flux penetrating through the circuit. The Lorentz force formula and Maxwell's equations are two distinct physical laws, yet the two methods yield the same results.

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2017/09/170926085958.htm

Includes a bit more "history" - Faraday's Law of Induction:

https://www.dataforth.com/faradays-law-of-induction.aspx

... "This is not exactly what Faraday described but was called Faraday's Law by Oliver Heaviside. It does not include the movement emf; that is the force effect Faraday found. The magnetic force is called Lorentz force. Current flowing in a wire in the presence of a magnetic field will experience a force and move if not restrained. In this case, magnetic energy is released kinetically." ...

" The previous mention of the relative motion of magnetic field and electric circuit has had considerable thought by many, well-known physicists. Richard Feynman stated: (1)

So the "flux rule" that the emf in a circuit is equal to the rate of change of the magnetic flux through the circuit applies whether the flux changes because the field changes or because the circuit moves (or both) ...

Yet in our explanation for the rule we have used two completely distinct laws for the two cases Faraday's Law equation (both vector quantities: -v x B) for "circuit moves" and Faraday's Law equation (vector: V x E = -dtB) for "field changes".

We know of no other place in physics where such a simple and accurate general principle requires for its real understanding an analysis in terms of two different phenomena.

Richard P. Feynman, The Feynman Lectures on Physics

---------------------------------------------------------------
Lorentz Force 3d view animation video (Lorentz is near the end, 6:26)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YZ9YRWYv2cY

---------------------------- Food for thought ---------

Professor Eric Laithwaite: Magnetic River 1975

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OI_HFnNTfyU

------------------------------------------------------------

So the question arrises: Does your 3D/2D CAE EM Maxwell's equation based analysis also include Lorentz Force?

CST - TBD, test solution against numerical.
Ansys EM - TBD, test solution against numerical.
COMSOL - allows review of equations used - check analysis insitu - test solutions.

SL

[tinman]

Hi Brad,

Not sure if this will help but I addressed this a while back in this post:

https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=4261.msg98564#msg98564

Might be hard to wrap your head around - for me it was anyway! Was trying to figure out a way to "figure it out"!
--------------------------------

Sorry for the long post but this is very important towards understanding (analyzing) Holcomb's and other devices.

Two Electromagnetic Equations - Yield the Same Results

Of the four laws of electromagnetism, let's consider only Lorentz Force and Faraday's Law of induction. They both arrive at the same answer; but their mechanisms are different. Some may say Faraday's Law is associated with Lenz whereas Lorentz is not - Faraday deals with an alternating magnetic field - Lorentz deals with a sweeping (traveling) magnetic field.

Review the earlier "Asymetric transformers - AAbramovich Discussions" section "Equivalence of induction according to Lorentz and Faraday" and the information below. Note that the differences between Faraday and Lorentz were never really resolved - history - seems Einstein got in the way - since he couldn't solve it, he started a new branch of physics - Special Relativity - and further attempts at a resolution faded. Lots of reading but worth it!

Four Laws of Electromagnetism

https://www.motioncontroltips.com/four-laws-of-electromagnetism-you-should-know/

https://www.vanderbilt.edu/AnS/physics/panvini/p110a/lect37c.html

Why Faraday's law and Lorentz force create the same electromotive force?

The Faraday's induction formula (flux rule) of electromagnetism says that the electromotive force (emf) created in a conducting circuit is equal to the rate at which the magnetic flux through the conducting circuit changes as it is written on a high school text in physics. This emf can be calculated in two ways: either by using the Lorentz force formula and calculating the force acting on electrons in the moving conductor of the circuit; or via one of Maxwell's equations (Faraday's law) and calculating the change of the magnetic flux penetrating through the circuit. The Lorentz force formula and Maxwell's equations are two distinct physical laws, yet the two methods yield the same results.

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2017/09/170926085958.htm

Includes a bit more "history" - Faraday's Law of Induction:

https://www.dataforth.com/faradays-law-of-induction.aspx

... "This is not exactly what Faraday described but was called Faraday's Law by Oliver Heaviside. It does not include the movement emf; that is the force effect Faraday found. The magnetic force is called Lorentz force. Current flowing in a wire in the presence of a magnetic field will experience a force and move if not restrained. In this case, magnetic energy is released kinetically." ...

" The previous mention of the relative motion of magnetic field and electric circuit has had considerable thought by many, well-known physicists. Richard Feynman stated: (1)

So the "flux rule" that the emf in a circuit is equal to the rate of change of the magnetic flux through the circuit applies whether the flux changes because the field changes or because the circuit moves (or both) ...

Yet in our explanation for the rule we have used two completely distinct laws for the two cases Faraday's Law equation (both vector quantities: -v x B) for "circuit moves" and Faraday's Law equation (vector: V x E = -dtB) for "field changes".

We know of no other place in physics where such a simple and accurate general principle requires for its real understanding an analysis in terms of two different phenomena.

Richard P. Feynman, The Feynman Lectures on Physics

---------------------------------------------------------------
Lorentz Force 3d view animation video (Lorentz is near the end, 6:26)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YZ9YRWYv2cY

---------------------------- Food for thought ---------

Professor Eric Laithwaite: Magnetic River 1975

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OI_HFnNTfyU

------------------------------------------------------------

So the question arrises: Does your 3D/2D CAE EM Maxwell's equation based analysis also include Lorentz Force?

CST - TBD, test solution against numerical.
Ansys EM - TBD, test solution against numerical.
COMSOL - allows review of equations used - check analysis insitu - test solutions.

SL

They all say the same thing--a changing magnetic field across a conductor, results in an EMF.
No where do any of them say that the magnetic field is what induces current flow.
They all say what i am saying, and that is an electric field always accompanies a changing magnetic field.
It is this electric field that induces current flow, not the magnetic field.

And you do not need a changing magnetic field to generate an EMF or current flow in a circuit or conductor.
Both the magnetic field and conductor can move together, and create an EMF across the conductor, and a current flow through the conductor.

Here is the problem.
Everyone is stuck in the past, and just accept the laws of the past as being the one and only.
And when they find a situation where those laws of induction don't work, they just make up a second set of laws to suit the situation the first set didn't work with. So rather than stand back, and work out what is really going on with induction, everyone is just happy to sit back and accept all these chopped up and modified laws. Here is the one and only law of induction--but hang on, they don't work with this device. Well here is a sub set of laws, so as they cover that situation as well. I mean-really. How about a unified set of laws to suit all situations. How about we put those !laws! aside for a while, and work out what is really going on.

I do not adhere to the accepted laws, as they are flawed, and also misunderstood by many-such as what causes current flow in a conductor. If we all just accept the current flawed laws, then we might as well throw in the towel, and this forum might as well shut down, because we will not achieve what we want to achieve if we accept the current set of laws as gospel.

[SolarLab]

Well, the old hypothesis have worked for nearly 150 years, flawed or not.
And, they still work; even when considering "generation of excess energy."

Maybe a new theory is needed, but that might take more work and discovery
before it's useable - i haven't seen that yet - but I remain very open-minded!

In the mean time I'll just plug away using what has been proven and works...
and try to expand on it a bit. I'm too lazy to re-invent the wheel!