Buoyancy calculations – making use of an exception to Archimedes' principle?

[Tarsier_79]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PZ4Ri2l4W8w

This guy tried to use the same principle... No pressure on the sides. It didn't work.

The important thing about buoyancy, it is the result of water moving downward with gravity. If Mass moves downwards, it will move. If it can't, it won't. Mass can't move downwards throughout the entire cycle unless you are filling it back up at the top and releasing some from the bottom.

Identify when in your system mass moves downwards and when water mass moves upwards. Then you will know when it isn't going to move.

[Novus]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PZ4Ri2l4W8w

@ Tarsier, nice find. Impressive build. The principle is indeed the same, however I guess it will not work because any 'gain' on one site will be cancelled by an equal 'loss' on the opposite site.

See below for the principle on how I understand buoyancy calculations works.

The question remains if the object in the example given in my earlier post will move up, down or remain stationary, preferably supported by calculations rather then general concepts on buoyancy, water displacement etc.

[Willy]

some observations...

panyuming design would function given that..

1. Seeping of the fluid into in between the fixed wall and the outer
surface of the pontoons can be prevented without creating to much friction.
2. The exception to Archimedes's is a valid exception.

A rubber like surface on the outside surfaces of the pontoons and upon the
inner face of the fixed wall might prevent the fluid's seepage.

The design referenced by Tarsier-79 in the video

@ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PZ4Ri2l4W8w

is only, in part, the same principle as is the Novus's design.
The design referenced by Tarsier-79 in that video does not
incorporate the bottom or side case exception to Archemedes's principle,
in that the sides are missing from the floats, at all times during its operation.

i.e. during both the submersion and the rising.

[Tarsier_79]

.... The principle is indeed the same, however I guess it will not work because any 'gain' on one site will be cancelled by an equal 'loss' on the opposite site.

See below for the principle on how I understand buoyancy calculations works.

The question remains if the object in the example given in my earlier post will move up, down or remain stationary, preferably supported by calculations rather then general concepts on buoyancy, water displacement etc.

In the video, his motor runs in the wrong direction. The larger surface area on the tubes should be rising, not falling. There used to be a video of this device test running in water.

Explain to me the "equal loss"? as it relates to your principle.

Your Buoyancy calculations match this I think:


Also, if we use your buoyancy calculations on the device in the video, won't it work?

The design referenced by Tarsier-79 in that video does not
incorporate the bottom or side case exception to Archemedes's principle,
in that the sides are missing from the floats, at all times during its operation.

i.e. during both the submersion and the rising.

Does that actually make any difference?

[Willy]

 

Does that actually make any difference?

Do you mean...

1. is the Archimedes principle exception valid ?
   or
2. that, assuming the Archimedes principle exception is valid, "does that actually
make any difference ?"

Answer to # 1. I don't know if the Archimedes principle exception is valid or not.

It is an idea I myself pondered in the past, but didn't have enough balls to consider
that I might actually be correct / had not heard of it from any source / had not the means
to test the idea.
                            It makes sense to me.

Answer to # 2. Yes, it makes a difference,

In the Panyuming design @

https://overunity.com/19459/buoyancy-calculations-making-use-of-an-exception-to-archimedes-principle/msg577132/#msg577132

the aluminum pontoons touching the fixed wall, will be less buoyant than the
pontoons that have all sides exposed to the liquid.  The wheel will have an
imbalance in the forces causing pontoons to rise and therefore, the wheel will
have a tendency to rotate clockwise, if the Archimedes principle exception is valid.