Lifters are worthless

[Yucca]

I think asymetrical capacitors (lifters) may work just as welll in space as on the earth.

Naudins tests in NASA vacuum chamber (1.72 x 10^-6 Torr) showed thrust was generated, albeit much less thrust for a given potential accros the capacitor:

http://jnaudin.free.fr/lifters/ascvacuum/index.htm

Conclusions  : This experiment is very interesting and shows definitely that a force is produced on asymmetrical capacitors when a High Voltage of +45KV is applied between their armatures in a High Vacuum ( 1.72 x 10^-6 Torr ).

One must remember that it's impossible to get an absolute vacuum anywhere in practice, even in deep space there is still atmosphere, just VERY rarified. A perfect vaccum is a theoretical asymptote, something that can never be achieved.

So to operate a lifter in deep space you need to raise the potential accross plates to much higher levels, but because the dialectric does not leak as much the power consumed will stay similar to a lower voltage lifter in a thicker atmosphere. Of course if you drop down into an atmosphere then you would have to reduce the potential to avoid arcover.

Note: the title of this thread "Lifters are worthless" puzzles me? Even if they didn't work in space would that make them worthless? A 747 doesn't work in space, is it worthless? Much can be learned by constructing a lifter, it is a great fun and fascinating entry point for enquiring minds into HV experimentation. So I postulate:

LIFTERS ARE INTERESTING! 

[AB Hammer]

Lifters may be worthless.

But they make great science projects for students.

But lets also think Coral Castle and what happened there?

[Steven Dufresne]

Jes the same thing

only ONE wire is connected to lifter
the "conter-point" ist the surround ground (earth)
Pese

No, Pese. TWO wires are connected to lifter. I've done it that way and so has everyone else who has built one. Here's a drawing of a lifter:
http://rimstar.org/sdprop/lifter/lifter/lifter_advice.jpg
One wire + or -, is connected to the grey wire that's at the top of the brown posts. The other wire, - or +, is connected to the grey foil (the rectangular parts near the bottom of the post.) As TinselKoala said, one polarity arrangement works better than the other. That's likely due to difference in ionic mobility of positive versous negative ions in air as Jean-Louis Naudin points out here:
http://jnaudin.free.fr/pcnpend/html/pcespend.htm
-Steve
http://rimstar.org

[allcanadian]

What few people have considered is that earth has a potential gradient of 100 volts per meter, that is the potential rises at a rate of 100v/meter as you move upward through the atmosphere, it is also known that these potential gradients exist between planetary bodies. Therefore a capacitor with oppositely charged plates of a given potential and rate of change may want to balance itself within these potential gradients and could be considered in the same light as a "boyancy" effect. In this case the pressure imbalance between two points leading to motion would be an electrical pressure, what has not been mentioned is another aspect called "coulomb" forces---
"themagnitude of the electrostatic force between two point electric charges is directly proportional to the product of the magnitudes of each charge and inversely proportional to the square of the distance between the charges."
but in this case the the force is not produced between the capacitor plates themselves---- but between the capacitor plates and the potential gradient the capacitor plates are immersed in---the potential gradient. The capacitor must rise for the same reason a balloon under water must rise---a pressure differential---boyancy.

[Yucca]

What few people have considered is that earth has a potential gradient of 100 volts per meter, that is the potential rises at a rate of 100v/meter as you move upward through the atmosphere, it is also known that these potential gradients exist between planetary bodies. Therefore a capacitor with oppositely charged plates of a given potential and rate of change may want to balance itself within these potential gradients and could be considered in the same light as a "boyancy" effect. In this case the pressure imbalance between two points leading to motion would be an electrical pressure, what has not been mentioned is another aspect called "coulomb" forces---
"themagnitude of the electrostatic force between two point electric charges is directly proportional to the product of the magnitudes of each charge and inversely proportional to the square of the distance between the charges."
but in this case the the force is not produced between the capacitor plates themselves---- but between the capacitor plates and the potential gradient the capacitor plates are immersed in---the potential gradient. The capacitor must rise for the same reason a balloon under water must rise---a pressure differential---boyancy.

A good way of looking at the subject as a whole, and I agree an asymetric capacitor WILL rise/move between planets and also between systems and even galaxies.