Is this the first selfrunning overunity motor w/o batteries ? Mike?s motor

[z_p_e]

Is your last shot the drive coil or the trigger coil?  it looks like the trigger winding, but it is labelled drive.

Hi db.

That's actually the Drive coil as labeled. You will notice that the Trigger and Drive coil waveforms are very similar, both in my shots, and Mike's.

Darren

[z_p_e]

db,

Unfortunately, Mike took that scope shot in a really troublesome place, because it is of very high resistance looking both ways; into the diode D2, and back into the SSR. Consequently, just putting the scope probe on this point will affect the scope shot. What is the OFF resistance of the SSR? What is it's ON resistance? How does a "zero-cross" type SSR function?

I agree that what EM drew there does follow the L2 waveform.

There is more to this motor than meets the eye. Because everything is coupled, they all affect each other. Multiple feedback paths....ay!

I am still trying to get a better match for the D2 shot, but there are so many parameters. I could use some suggestions.

Regards,
Darren

[z_p_e]

Here's a starting point.

Two scope shots between D2 and the SSR. The SSR IS being triggered in these shots, and the red waveform indicates when the SSR is ON.

I used 1MEG for OFF resistance, and 0.1 Ohm for ON. This scope point is being pulled down by a 100MEG resistor.

The first shot is with the Vcheat at 0V (a piece of wire). The second is with Vcheat at 6V.

Any suggestions are welcome.

Darren

[dingbat]

Unfortunately, Mike took that scope shot in a really troublesome place, because it is of very high resistance looking both ways; into the diode D2, and back into the SSR. Consequently, just putting the scope probe on this point will affect the scope shot. What is the OFF resistance of the SSR? What is it's ON resistance? How does a "zero-cross" type SSR function?

I agree that what EM drew there does follow the L2 waveform.

There is more to this motor than meets the eye. Because everything is coupled, they all affect each other. Multiple feedback paths....ay!

I am still trying to get a better match for the D2 shot, but there are so many parameters. I could use some suggestions.

The zero cross ssr typically means that the unit will switch on at zero load voltage, and off at zero load current.  They are normally used on 50 or 60hz loads, and this on/off function causes minimum surge and arcing at the load. - turn the load on when the 60hz power is at zero volts, turn off when the current through the load is zero amps.

I was hoping that the portion of the trace where the ssr is on would be significantly different from where it is off.  Unfortunately it looks like the 100 meg resistance makes more difference than the on/off function of the ssr in your simulation.

The scope is also grounded at a bad point.  The only clear conduction path is through the bottom transistor, and it seems like that transistor would be open when the ssr is closed - but we're not really positive of the timing.  I don't know what the transistor would model as in a non-conducting state.  I think it would be a very high resistance with a diode in series, but it has been a long time since I studied transistor models.  It seems to me like the scope ground would more or less be floating when the transistor is off, and Mikes trace looks like the ground is floating - until the ssr fires, and possibly when the transistor switches.

I'll have to think about it some more.  sorry, no great suggestions right now.

Nice work, though.

db

[neptune]

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