A different approach, input appreciated

[Gregory]

Gregry,

Isn't  Perendev considered static mag design?

Yes, it is...

I don't know but the same time I'm not convinced that Perendev's all magnet motor design is really worked. You've just seen a bad quality video about it, and heard talks. Some time back I thought it might be really a workable design, I was almost convinced but my experiments with magnets proved the opposite for me. I was a great believer, but I changed my mind and accepted how magnets act in reality. If you want to achieve something, first you must analyze things for yourself very carefully to get a real good feeling, and practical understanding how they work. After that you must accept the reality of their operation, without believes. Then you can begin to search for a solution...

We can talk about some kind of mystical shielding application, but I think that will not get us closer to the real solution. On the other hand a lot of shielding in a motor design is not usually considered as a good thing.

Just an opinion... I'm not a professor.

How do you think, hanker886?

[d3adp00l]

Gregory your answer is right, your reply a bit inside the box. The perendev motor hasn't been seen by anyone to be validly working. Yes is it the most basic question and the greatest hurdle to a pmm. The question following that would be, if the field can't spontaniously change itself, who can one create a field occilation without changing the field. And yes gregory I am starting at the beginning and going slow, mostly to have a conversation that can begin at the first questions, and possible combine experiences to get to an answer. If something more advanced is desired we can roll with that also.

[Low-Q]

Many years ago I started working on the whole perm mag motor, pmm, for the first few years my father told me to quit tearing apart everything with a magnet it because it wouldn't work. Until while holding a configuration in my hands I got it to spin quite fast. That changed his mind. I have built, tested, and drawn more configurations than a google search can come up with,(btw the one in my hands rotated because the magnets pushed my hands around with a slight rotation of the axle giving a net motive force to the weak field area). I would like to talk over some ideas and see the feed back at this forum.
  Lets all tend to agree that what we are attempting here is do to in some shape form or fashion what electrical motors actually do. So in a sense that is our model to work from, right. Here is my first question of this particular thought train.

What do all electric motors have in common, regardless of voltage or anything.

Electric motors have a magnetized rotor that wants to flip over into the neutral position between two or more stator magnets.

The main difference between a pure magnet motor and an electric motor, is that the magnetism in an electric motor follows the rotor and suddenly shift magnetic polarity where the rotor poles is closest to the stator magnets. In a pure magnet motor the magnetism does NOT follow the rotor pole as it rotate, and does not suddenly shut off its magnetism and swop polarity. Thats why pure permanent magnet motors don't work.

I have some ideas drawn and animated here, but after major calculations, the average torque is allways zero - sadly but true.

However, if you got any idea that might work nice, please feel free to post it here

Br.

Vidar

[d3adp00l]

Ok heres the kick, electric motors don't really work on the principle that we normally think they do. Forget about attraction and repulsion, and think in terms of frustration. Electric motors work because the fields are turned on when they will be in high magnetic frustration (a point when fields are at a high energy conflict with others), the fields want to move to a low area of frustration(just like we do). Once in the low area of frustration the field is either turned off (allowing inertia to carry the cycle), or reversed inducing another high frustration. Yes this is elementary but its an important mental concept. PMM always have high points and low points, as long as there is a single low point of frustration the design will not work because that point is where the magnets will want to stay. Think more in terms of equal frustration, the design has to have equal frustration for its entire cycle. This would seem to indicate that there would be no motion, at first. If you can have continually equal frustration in the same direction, then you would have a continuous torque with an equal vector. The result of that is like a horse with a carrot in front of it on a pole held by the rider. It wants to get to a low state of frustration, but it can't because the fields pull and push it out of the only possible low state, which would be to hold still. Yes it is difficult to think of a configuration that all the fields are equal and trying to go the same direction.

[Low-Q]

In that horse-carrot story, the carrot wants the horse as well as the horse want the carrot if both stands still. In a figurative sense the same with permanent magnets. Force equals counterforce, so to speak. The only way the horse is moving, is by using energy by being fooled by the relatively static carrot. It is not however easy to fool a magnet to believe it can move by itself. So only by providing movable energy into one magnet will also force another magnet to move, not else.

How is it possible to a permanent magnet to work in one direction and not in another without manipulating it with external energy supply?


In spite of quite much internal brain counteraction, telling me that permanent magnet motors can't run, I still try to make it - thats my carrot

Btw: Electro motors work by using attraction and repulsion caused by an external energy supply - for your information

Br.

Vidar