New accelerating gravity wheel ! Converted video from www.newenergymachine.com !

[noonespecial]

Hi Unity (Do you have a name?),

Wow! You actually built one of their machines? I've had their plans for several months and was originally going to build theirs until I saw Bob's.

Regarding which came first, we know that Bob claims to have worked on his for several years though I don't believe he ever stated an exact timeframe. The similarities are undeniable so I guess we are left with a 'chicken and egg' scenario.

Can you share some photos or video of your build?

Regards,
Charlie

[rlortie]

Hello Charlie,

I have been involved in more heated debates regarding centrifugal force and centripetal force than I care to reflect upon, so I  am going to be very careful of what I say here.

First I propose a few questions!... Are  you aware or see any significance between an internal cam and an outside ramp? Remember  a cam is nothing more than an internal version of a  ramp, its effect is just taking place on a different part of the lever.
Do you believe that one is more efficient than the other, and if so which?
Can you explain why you are led to pick one over the other disregarding aesthetics of design? 

Which of Newton's 3 laws of motion covers the explanation of centrifugal force?  A force that is only present within a mass physically contained to a radial path of  motion.

What is the physical containment called? 
Why did Bessler write;  the weights are at a right angle to the axis?
(excerpt from author John Collins).

Reflect on this a for a bit and let me know your thoughts,  it will give me a better understanding of how to proceed  without creating a lot of unnecessary rebuttal.  Put more effort into your own innovative thinking rather than rely on what  Bob's influence has led you to believe. Its called the primrose lane!  Bob has simply shown you the junction or fork leading to that path. 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Primrose_Path

I say to all members:  Go ahead and build, you may fall into something and if not you will be educated on another idea that does not work. The main thing is; build and test, get it out of your system so it does not cloud your future thinking. Physical trial and error research is the only way I see to win this battle. You will learn more by error than you ever will ever learn sitting at a computer philosophizing, drawing animations and/or simulations.     

Ralph 

[noonespecial]

Hi Ralph,

I have been involved in more heated debates regarding centrifugal force and centripetal force than I care to reflect upon, so I  am going to be very careful of what I say here.

Like you, I'm more interested in our conversations generating more light than heat.

First I propose a few questions!... Are  you aware or see any significance between an internal cam and an outside ramp? Remember  a cam is nothing more than an internal version of a  ramp, its effect is just taking place on a different part of the lever.
Do you believe that one is more efficient than the other, and if so which?
Can you explain why you are led to pick one over the other disregarding aesthetics of design? 

Let me preface my comments by saying that it obvious that you have more knowledge that I do regarding mechanics. I am just a tinkerer who enjoys making things for the shear enjoyment and challenge. I honestly don't know the difference between a ramp and a cam with the exception of their function in a design. In my drawing, I chose a ramp to hold the weights out and a cam to lift the weights. To my mind, this just makes sense logically. If there is more efficient way, I'm all ears.

Which of Newton's 3 laws of motion covers the explanation of centrifugal force?  A force that is only present within a mass physically contained to a radial path of  motion.

I'll have to look this up. Or, you can just let me know and how knowing will get us to a completed design quicker.

What is the physical containment called? 
Why did Bessler write;  the weights are at a right angle to the axis?
(excerpt from author John Collins).

Before stumbling upon this forum a few months ago, I had never heard of Bessler so it would be hard for me to comment on his writings.

Reflect on this a for a bit and let me know your thoughts,  it will give me a better understanding of how to proceed  without creating a lot of unnecessary rebuttal.  Put more effort into your own innovative thinking rather than rely on what  Bob's influence has led you to believe. Its called the primrose lane!  Bob has simply shown you the junction or fork leading to that path. 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Primrose_Path

My design is a departure from Bob's. However, it may lack a necessary element to make it work and short of seeing Bob's drawings I'm left with only trial and error.


Regards,
Charlie

[rlortie]

Hello Charlie,

I suggest that you and all members, rely less on Bob's design and follow your own intuition.  Bob is (as I understand) is now involved in his ninth build. Does he have something?only  time will tell, in the meantime he falls under the category of many members who have made premature announcements that they have it, or they will announce some future date to reveal there great invention. To date none have materialized!

One such member built a a rather large machine with very heavy weights. It was based on a double fixed ramp design that moved the weights inward at the bottom and back outward at the top. And yes just as Bob is stating it used latches. The mass shift was very short considering the large radius of the wheel. This in fact made for an almost balanced wheel. Due to the massive overall weight, once set in motion from a preloaded state, it would rotate for a considerable length of time. The fact that inertia and kinetic energy wishes to keep that which is in motion, in motion.

It was in fact so impressive that investors (one in particular) gave over $10,000 Canadian plus a shop building and a new computer with printer to the so called inventor for farther research. The machine (for obvious reasons) did not materialize and the last I heard the responsible party is now looking for more investors. He once approached me and stated that he would come to my home and assist me in working on his design if I would 'keep him'  I took that to mean free room and board to work on something that I knew would never work!

What is the difference between an internal stationary placed cam and a fixed exterior ramp? To my experience, absolutely none!  The intent of both is to physically change the path of a mass in radial motion. The means of creating a change in path it is forced to  follow is called 'Centripetal force' and is physical. The end result of changing the radius of path is called 'angular motion'.  The inward moving mass slows in velocity while the outward moving mass must gain in velocity.

Now enters centrifugal force; Centrifugal force for years was referred to as a 'fictional force' as it is felt as a force pulling outward from the axis. In reality centrifugal force is created by inertia, that which wishes something in radial motion to go straight and not follow the curve.  Draw a circle with a small one in the center representing your axle. Any where around the circumference of you circle draw an arrow at a right angle to the axle. This represents the path the mass is attempting to follow and is what creates centrifugal force. The  physical constraint prevents it from flying outward which is called centripetal. Centripetal being of physical mass directs the force to its center which is the axis of our wheel.

The ramp and the cam both being stationary represent friction also known as 'back torque'  Many inventors have introduced us to thousands of designs based on the cam or ramp. You will find a very good assortment of them here on this forum as well as others. They all will have some little variance in design, such as adding magnets, springs, and latches. The most common claim is that their ramp or cam induces angular momentum to start at a different point or degree.

Click on my photo gallery link under author name to the far left of this page. Go to page six and zoom in on the third and fourth pictures. Here you will see a special test wheel I built to once and for all satisfy my curiosity regarding  stationary ramps. 

This test wheel is mounted on reinforced backed peg board The disk or wheel is made of 3/4" thick MDF (medium density fiberboard)  The adjustable rim is double thickness  3/16" Tempered Hardboard. The flanged carrier bearings are 3/8" x 1-1/8". The levers are 1-3/8" X 14 gauge perforated bar stock. The weights which can also be referred to idlers, followers, rollers, are wheels from a set of Roller Blade skates and are very low in friction.

To make my tests as valid as possible, great care was taken to make sure there would be no discrepancy.  First the mounting holes for the flanged bearing carrier bearings was laid out and drilled, axle bolts and bearings installed. I then set the disk with its horizontal axle into a double race balancing fixture for static and dynamic balancing. The four levers making up eight spokes were also balanced at center and then weighed on certified Postal scales to achieve a uniform  weight, which ended up being 2 pounds seven ounces.

The rim was so designed that any elliptical path desired could be implemented. The point of inducement could also be varied anywhere around the perimeter.

Then the tests began, I tried every conceivable configuration imaginable. when centered and given a moderate start it would spin freely, No matter where I started the ramp or how much angle of attack I induced the machine would not or could not achieve a self-sustaining state. I was never able  to force the lever up high enough for centrifugal force to complete the transference. The higher I lifted it the more back torque it imposes, causing loss of velocity which of course means loss of centrifugal force.

In closing argument; I say that Bob knows all about this and is why he diligently speaks of a supercharger.  What can we qualify as a supercharger?  In the mechanical world it means compressing air!  The crutch of this is to wait and see if his machine can run the supercharger and have energy left over for utilization.

I will bet anybody a beer that when Bobs machine is revealed (if ever) it will be either pneumatic or hydraulic over pneumatic. Bob is not going to tell us, he has been hounded to his limits, tired of the e-mails and people attempting to find out where he lives, that being where they believe the machine to be. Forget it, its not at his residence and to my knowledge is not completed yet!

Meanwhile back at the ranch: I reiterate that we should leave Bob and his alleged machine by the wayside as we proceed with designs of our own making. To Charlie and Larry I can only add that I wish them the best of luck in attempting to turn what they have into a runner.

Ralph Lortie                             



       

[rlortie]

Charlie,

Some times and quite frequently I might add; we overlook the obvious. I decided to take a coffee break from my own project and let my mind regroup.  I took a second look (as the first look was a quick glance)  at your work in progress and then at your drawing.  I am puzzled by what I now see that I missed first time around. Solid lines depict start of cycle while dash lines represent end of cycle. Rotor arm has not moved as indicated by arrow. 

You depict the actuator arm lifting a roller at 6:00 o'clock up to the ramp, roller has already been picked up 2.5" by cam. This roller I presume is on the end of your weighted lever. Won't the roller be in motion as it is picked up and be well past the ramp entrance when it gets there? What am I missing here?

Ralph