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Triple Pulse Generator using cheapish parts

Started by Peterae, May 13, 2007, 07:22:08 AM

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Thedane

#5
May 13, 2007, 02:29:43 PM
Hi Peter,

I like Atmel because a 16 MHz crystal equals 16 MIPS. PIC's usually scales down by 4.
The AVR's also have PWM, A/D, Timers, Comperators, etc. built in, so there's actually not a big difference hardware wise between the two.
Regarding the PWM it is possible to have an automatic reload, so you don't need to service it - besides from changing the settings.

The AD9833 doesn't need 100% supervision -just set the freq/etc. and you're free to scan keypad and update LCD.
This way it is possible to use the generator on other projects, and programmed properly it's easy to change waveform and frequency. You can even make it sweep automatically  :)

I guess the biggest reason why I like AVR's better is that they do not use banks - and software development is almost straight forward.  (I also got a few free samples  ;D)

It's possible to get 2 free samples of the AD9833 on Analog's homepage.

No matter which chip(s) you use - good luck to you on your project!

Peterae

#6
May 13, 2007, 02:57:33 PM
Hi Thedane
I will bear the AD in mind, the problem is i wanted something i could whip up to get running with my TPU.
I didnt really want to spend weeks of my spare time coding user interfaces and protocol interfaces, the AD is a bit more complex in setting up codewise, the pcb is more complicated as well with regard to earth paths, It may also be more unstable near a TPU without going to multiple layer PCB's.
I may come back do a prototype using this in the future, as it surely would be a nice addition to my test equipment.
For now my Pic circuit is simple, and easily coded to achieve what i want it to do.
I must say i am not familiar with Atmel devices, i have used most other, intel, rockwell, Zilog to name a few.
Thanks for your suggestions
Peter

Peterae

#7
May 13, 2007, 04:30:38 PM
Hi Mramos
Unfortunatley i wasnt awear of the boards Darren was on about when i started this.
I am not saying this board is good for everyone, but though i would share my system, i wanted something fast so its not ideal, but other than buying 3 signal generators, it seemed cheap and fast, you are right i will have to reprogram the pics as i change, but this is fast enough, and it leaves the system open to fast modification.
I thought it maybe good to share this incase someone knows and uses Pics anyway.
I will carry on heading towards my first TPU build. ;)
My intention is not to build a signal generator easily configurable, but more a TPU controller that will self tune eventually and have safety features built in.
Using the sweep funtion i hope to be able to put every combination of frequency available on 3 channels over a set period of time, all i have to do is monitor for some kind of response or reaction, and try different configurations.Imagine how long it would take to do this using seperate frequency generators and even then you wouldnt be sure if you missed a combination.
Offcourse i might be going down the wrong road with this stragergy but it's the route i have chosen.


Peter

Bruce_TPU

#8
May 13, 2007, 07:45:24 PM
Some electronics advice from an SM post in his own words:

"The reason it took soooooo long to make a successful SS control unit is because we maintained that attitude for so long. Finally we came to the conclusion that there must be SOMETHING that tube control devices did differently then SS devices. I had a friend who was a wiz-bang SS color TV expert. I asked him if he could give us some pointers on duplicating the tube control devices in a SS state device. His tips eventually pointed us in the right direction and we made SS control devices out of discreet devices which worked. Remember that this was before the big linear IC boom, so everything we did was with little discreet parts and big PC boards. By the way, we found out some very important things during our research that I am sure, very sure that none of the boys out their know about. The following is very interesting:
# 1. PC boards made out of different materials change the operating conditions of SS devices. # 2. Soldering the components at least 1/2 inch above the board itself is essential to making a good SS control unit out of discrete devices.
# 3. As you know, Large amounts of FEEDBACK is essential to frequency and control when using SS devices for everything in the electronics world, HOWEVER, it is the enemy of generators!  If anyone ever gets one of these things operating, have them measure the electro magnetic and hash radio around the unit....it will blow your mind. so, what does that do to control devices in close proximity?
Why do you think we HAD to place our control devices in the middle of the operating coil? Listen: when these units get going they F**K with the control units, changing the signals they put out and receive. they have no choice but to get off frequency and shut down. In most cases they will not even start up.
TUBES are NOT as sensitive as SS control devices and DO NOT require the massive amounts of feed back to operate. There is an advantage in tubes just from that standpoint alone, not to mention all the other things I have mentioned in the past.
I told you guys long ago...
If just these two little things are important discoveries, how far off are all the guys out there trying design their own control devices?   So tell them what I have said and listen to them all scream balderdash!! Haresy!!! And then you can tell them that we found out way back then... It is because the material some PC boards are made out of can absorb humidity... So.... depending on the conditions of humidity of the specific day, the boards would change the characteristics of the SS control circuits.
It took us a long time just to find that little thing out... we never thought of it. no one ever thought of it.... BUT, it turned out to be a very significant thing and so we used the absolute finest PC board material the government used in missiles and rockets... You see, even though no one knows about the PC board material being important to sensitive instruments and SS devices, the government did... So we learned, and learned...
And you and everybody else, God Willing, will learn too."

1.  Lindsay's Stack TPU Posted Picture.  All Wound CCW  Collectors three turns and HORIZONTAL, not vertical.

2.  3 Tube amps, sending three frequency's, each having two signals, one in-phase & one inverted 180 deg, opposing signals in each collector (via control wires). 

3.  Collector is Magnetic Loop Antenna, made of lamp chord wire, wound flat.  Inside loop is antenna, outside loop is for output.  First collector is tuned via tuned tank, to the fundamental.  Second collector is tuned tank to the second harmonic (component).  Third collector is tuned tank to the third harmonic (component)  Frequency is determined by taking the circumference frequency, reducing the size by .88 inches.  Divide this frequency by 1000, and you have your second harmonic.  Divide this by 2 and you have your fundamental.  Multiply that by 3 and you have your third harmonic component.  Tune the collectors to each of these.  Input the fundamental and two modulation frequencies, made to create replicas of the fundamental, second harmonic and the third.

4.  The three frequency's circulating in the collectors, both in phase and inverted, begin to create hundreds of thousands of created frequency's, via intermodulation, that subtract to the fundamental and its harmonics.  This is called "Catalyst".

5.  The three AC PURE sine signals, travel through the amplification stage, Nonlinear, producing the second harmonic and third.  (distortion)

6.  These signals then travel the control coils, are rectified by a full wave bridge, and then sent into the output outer loop as all positive pulsed DC.  This then becomes the output and "collects" the current.

P.S.  The Kicks are harmonic distortion with passive intermodulation.  Can't see it without a spectrum analyzer, normally unless trained to see it on a scope.

Bruce_TPU

#9
May 13, 2007, 09:12:24 PM
Every thing in quotes but the "Some electronics advice from an SM post in his own words:" are SM's words found at:

http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,2201.0.html

:)  Don't shoot the messenger...LOL  Just giving a friendly reminder of what the INVENTOR of what we are trying to duplicate has said.

I for one am in the process of having a tube circuit built, just working with some to figure out exactly what we want the "controller to do". 

Of course this is not a contest, I posted SM's comments as always to help up find the correct path.  As usual, some find fault with that...Hmm..

Perhaps someone will actually LISTEN to the inventor for once and do as HE SUGGESTS.. wouldn't that be novel!  LOL

1.  Lindsay's Stack TPU Posted Picture.  All Wound CCW  Collectors three turns and HORIZONTAL, not vertical.

2.  3 Tube amps, sending three frequency's, each having two signals, one in-phase & one inverted 180 deg, opposing signals in each collector (via control wires). 

3.  Collector is Magnetic Loop Antenna, made of lamp chord wire, wound flat.  Inside loop is antenna, outside loop is for output.  First collector is tuned via tuned tank, to the fundamental.  Second collector is tuned tank to the second harmonic (component).  Third collector is tuned tank to the third harmonic (component)  Frequency is determined by taking the circumference frequency, reducing the size by .88 inches.  Divide this frequency by 1000, and you have your second harmonic.  Divide this by 2 and you have your fundamental.  Multiply that by 3 and you have your third harmonic component.  Tune the collectors to each of these.  Input the fundamental and two modulation frequencies, made to create replicas of the fundamental, second harmonic and the third.

4.  The three frequency's circulating in the collectors, both in phase and inverted, begin to create hundreds of thousands of created frequency's, via intermodulation, that subtract to the fundamental and its harmonics.  This is called "Catalyst".

5.  The three AC PURE sine signals, travel through the amplification stage, Nonlinear, producing the second harmonic and third.  (distortion)

6.  These signals then travel the control coils, are rectified by a full wave bridge, and then sent into the output outer loop as all positive pulsed DC.  This then becomes the output and "collects" the current.

P.S.  The Kicks are harmonic distortion with passive intermodulation.  Can't see it without a spectrum analyzer, normally unless trained to see it on a scope.
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