Power plant idea, NEED HELP WITH THIS!

[2tiger]

Hi all
Well here is my half baked idea. My English is not very good, so I hope that you all will understand the principle of how it works.
The idea is a combination of other technologies, that were jet discussed here in this forum.

1.   Hydrogen production
2.   ordinary water turbine-generator
3.   combustion-engine with mechanical-heat-coupling OR hydrogen-oxygen fuelcell

Function:
Let us say we make hydrogen and oxygen via electrolysis in 100 meter depth or deeper. So we have to count with 100% electricity IN. As long as I know the producing of hydrogen via electrolysis has a COP of 0,8 in best case.
Now the hydrogen will raise through a pipe (the oxygen needs an own pipe) 100 meter to the top, because of its lightweight, and will be feed into a combustion engine. (). Through mechanical-heat-coupling this will us produce by a COP of 0,8 (too) heat and electricity (energy OUT).
I choose a combustion engine, because igniting the hydrogen will automatically suck the oxygen through the other pipe.
I don`t know if a hydrogen fuel cell will do the same.

Please keep now in mind, that we have a total loss from 40% from our 100% IN.

Now we take the exhaust from the engine, a.k.a. water, collect it in a tank and conduct it through a pipe 100 meter down to operate a water turbine with a generator to get electricity.

Remember 40% losses ??.  BUT we have 100% of the water ?upstairs?.
100% water upstairs means 100% energy stored in the water.

Actually I don?t know the losses from a water-turbine-generator combination. But I guess that it could be around 25% and 35%. So assume 60% energy OUT

The last step to close the circle will be to conduct the water to the electrolysis-tank.

In sum we will have 60% of energy from our engine (mechanical-heat-coupling) and
round about 60% from our turbine, total of 120%.

Well this is half baked idea. I will try to draw a picture of that.
Please correct me if I am wrong with my maths, or better do your own maths and post the results.
I will be waiting for feedback.

Have a nice weekend.

2Tiger

[Pirate88179]

This is an interesting concept.  I don't know a lot about electrolysis but I have heard that if you split water into hydrogen and oxygen and run it through an internal combustion motor, the water that results can't be used to split again.  I have no idea why this is.  Your idea of the water turbine is interesting and maybe I misunderstand that you don't intend to re-use the water after the turbine for fuel for the engine again.

Bill

[2tiger]

Hi Pirate
Thanks for your reply.
No you understood it well. My intention was to reuse the water.
As long as I know, you can reuse the water if you burnt it in a closed enviroment. The only thing is, that it must be pure and clean water (destilled).

But I may be wrong. Perhaps someone here in the forum has better knowledge in this area.

kr
2Tiger

[tinu]

Hi 2Tiger,

Why would the hydrogen raise through the pipe by itself?
Tinu

[2tiger]

@tinu

Because of this: Source => Wikipedia

Hydrogen.....With an atomic mass of 1.00794 g/mol, hydrogen is the lightest element.

And if I am wrong, and it wouldn?t raise, we have a 4 stroke combustion engine.
One of the strokes sucks the combustion into the cylinder capacity. The energy therefore is allready
considered in the losses of a combustion engine.
So once started, the engine would help to lift(suck) the hydrogen out of the pipe.
The same will happen to the oxigen.

by
2Tiger