Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler

[DrStiffler]

@Loki

You ask;
@Dr. Stiffler,
I take it you have designed this to operate at optimum heat output without the need to take into account the light radiating from the neon for COP determination? Is the energy radiating as light a significant percentage of the total power budget? Otherwise the increase in just the light is very significant from subjective observation. The entire interior volume of the Neon is plasma and bright Red-Orange is a very accurate description. Nice work! I can't wait for my temp sensors now!  Grin

I do not consider the light from the Neon, but I do consider 'whole' circuit dissipation, not just the Neon. I do not want another can of worms like the issue with the LED's so I ignore the light. If you can get 1.2 -> 1.5 then isn't the light a bonus??

[Loki67671]

@Yucca
Excellent work, but what I might ask is do you feel that this method does not require calibration? In other words I might be inclined to have a calibration resistance in each side and power both for a cal period to be sure there is no offset from the two sides, then would use that offset in the final calculation??

Of course, I hadn't thought about that yet. Thanks for the heads up.

Q)Would aluminium foil backed cardboard work for the SEC heat mod or should I scrounge some thicker metal?

@Yucca,
Dr. Stiffler will correct me if I'm wrong here, but it is my understanding that the surface area of the conductive plate is the key parameter not its thickness, and maintaining the same parasitic capacitance, 7.5pF from each node of the circuit relative to the plate and 3.75pF relative to each other, i.e. two identical parasitic capacitances in series equals half the individual value. I'm going to test a copper clad board cut to size also. Just to prove it to myself, but keep in mind Dr. Stiffler has very practical and technical reasons for the suggested materials. How will you attach the wire from the PCB to the parasitic plate if it's Al. foil? I don't think soldering will work but I haven't tried that. Soldering to aluminum? Not that I am aware of.

But a google search turns up http://www.tinmantech.com/html/faq__soldering_aluminum_foil.php

Tin flashing works well. I will let you know how the copper turns out but I'm not spending the money on special materials for the aluminum so just my two cents.

Best regards,

Jim

[DrStiffler]

@Yucca
Excellent work, but what I might ask is do you feel that this method does not require calibration? In other words I might be inclined to have a calibration resistance in each side and power both for a cal period to be sure there is no offset from the two sides, then would use that offset in the final calculation??

Of course, I hadn't thought about that yet. Thanks for the heads up.

Q)Would aluminium foil backed cardboard work for the SEC heat mod or should I scrounge some thicker metal?

@Yucca
Yes, any fairly good conductor will work. I used tin because it is cheaper than copper and you an still solder to it for a good connection. With the Al a strip of copper tape over the top allows you to solder and the heat of the soldering will melt the glue backing so you have a conductor. Another way would be the Al tape on cardboard or thick construction paper, then a small strip over the wire should make for a fair connection.

**Of course, I hadn't thought about that yet. Thanks for the heads up.
I assume you know, but you can not tamper with the unit once you calibrate. I had a fellow calibrate then open the unit and connect the SEC Boards, close the unit and test, guess what? Results were poor and inaccurate. Seal, calibrate, run (no messing in between). Takes hours, you need to let cool to equilibrium after calibration before running test. Keep ambient as close as possible to the same. The SEC will spike when first in operation, then as components heat the production will drop as components change value and the transistor dynamics shift. If possible you need to monitor temp like in minute increments or you can turn it on and come back hours later and say, hey this did not work. That first 50% of run time will give the best results.

[Loki67671]

@Loki

You ask;
@Dr. Stiffler,
I take it you have designed this to operate at optimum heat output without the need to take into account the light radiating from the neon for COP determination? Is the energy radiating as light a significant percentage of the total power budget? Otherwise the increase in just the light is very significant from subjective observation. The entire interior volume of the Neon is plasma and bright Red-Orange is a very accurate description. Nice work! I can't wait for my temp sensors now!  Grin

I do not consider the light from the Neon, but I do consider 'whole' circuit dissipation, not just the Neon. I do not want another can of worms like the issue with the LED's so I ignore the light. If you can get 1.2 -> 1.5 then isn't the light a bonus??

@Dr. Stiffler,
Yes I agree, Light output Ignored! Thank you sir and yes it will be considered a bonus. No sidetracking from the heat work! 

Best regards,

Jim

[DrStiffler]

@Yucca
Excellent work, but what I might ask is do you feel that this method does not require calibration? In other words I might be inclined to have a calibration resistance in each side and power both for a cal period to be sure there is no offset from the two sides, then would use that offset in the final calculation??

Of course, I hadn't thought about that yet. Thanks for the heads up.

Q)Would aluminium foil backed cardboard work for the SEC heat mod or should I scrounge some thicker metal?

@Yucca,
Dr. Stiffler will correct me if I'm wrong here, but it is my understanding that the surface area of the conductive plate is the key parameter not its thickness, and maintaining the same parasitic capacitance, 7.5pF from each node of the circuit relative to the plate and 3.75pF relative to each other, i.e. two identical parasitic capacitances in series equals half the individual value. I'm going to test a copper clad board cut to size also. Just to prove it to myself, but keep in mind Dr. Stiffler has very practical and technical reasons for the suggested materials. How will you attach the wire from the PCB to the parasitic plate if it's Al. foil? I don't think soldering will work but I haven't tried that. Soldering to aluminum? Not that I am aware of.

But a google search turns up http://www.tinmantech.com/html/faq__soldering_aluminum_foil.php

Tin flashing works well. I will let you know how the copper turns out but I'm not spending the money on special materials for the aluminum so just my two cents.

Best regards,

Jim

@Loki & Yucca
**Dr. Stiffler will correct me if I'm wrong here, but it is my understanding that the surface area of the conductive plate is the key parameter not its thickness,

Correct, but area over the entire bottom of the board, this is not a localized phenomenon, its not the atypical feed back path. Every one must refer back to the image I posted where I showed a capacity of ~= amount to every part of the surface from the Al backing plate of the proto-boards. This (I call it) parasitic capacity is far more complex than simple feedback to sustain gain. Someone really looking into a SEC board would do well to explore what affect different size plates will have (smaller). One will see in a short time this is not what most feel it is at first blush.

**capacitance, 7.5pF from each node of the circuit relative to the plate and 3.75pF relative to each other
Don't get hung up on these values! They were references to what was going on in the pin boards. Maybe I can paraphrase it; 'Water rolls down hill, but something in front and it will try and find a path to continue, build a dam and you hold it back until it overflows. These capacity values are not written in stone and vary with the construction of the circuit (the obstruction to the water) and the frequencies of the exciter (bandwidth) or (the amount of water filling the dam).

At this point there are only rough formula for how to select the correct (assumed correct) values. As all should know this board was just not thrown together, a bit of thought had to go into it to allow the Exciter to operate.

**I'm going to test a copper clad board cut to size also.
I will never open another of your attachments, I am not 100% sure you are reading my computer files

Single clad will work great for the plate and use the cheaper thinner material. Double clad is interesting when you explore the connection of the side opposed to the board. Connecting this plate in different location has interesting result. Another time maybe..............

On to the calorimetry video..............