Nathan Stubblefield Earth battery/Self Generating Induction Coil Replications

[MW383]

Jeanna,

I really need to come up to speed with voltage-amperage-frequency relationships. I promise to learn about these things real soon so I can begin interpreting the many things you have mentioned.

Do you have a suggestion about a ferrous material?

I'm not sure in what context you are asking me this (Hacked Induction Cookers?)
For hacked induction cookers, again a simple soft iron = the best. You will see that the pretty induction cooking pots/pans are stainless steel on the outside for corrosion-cleanability purposes, but integrated into the bottom surface of pan is a ferrous disk and aluminum disk. The aluminum is just there to even out heat transfer into the stainless. Ferrous there just for inductive field purposes. It has been my experience that weakly magnetic grades of stainless steel such as 430 will work with these cookers. I have used .048" thick plates with limited success. Observations in this case : weak field created, far less heat generation produced as compared to more ferrous materials. At the end of the day it was really a demonstration of inefficiency.

My hardware store has this really thick copper wire. 1/8 and 1/4" diameter. expensive, but an immersion coil only would take a little, Do you think this is the right direction? or do you think iron is?

I take it you want to inductively heat a liquid? Easily accomplished -- it is just a question of getting construction into a format usable to you. An induction cooker with compatible pot/pan will very efficiently heat a liquid contained in it. A non-ferrous container can also be used (even plastic) just as long as it is temperature rated to above whatever you substance you are heating (+ a safety margin if you are dealing with non-metals). So in this case you can have an aluminum vessel in the field which by itself is useless. By simply sticking some ferrous material in the vessel, just this material will heat thus heating your liquid. Note, this all accomplished with an unmodified induction cooker employing its standard pancake coil. The chunk of ferrous material you have in your vessel literally becomes the immersion heater only in this case it is wireless! The bottom line is that this is a neat thing to modify in order to perform whatever unique task one has in mind. There will be limitations in distance of field (coil to ferrous object) and maybe a few others. So long as you trick the induction cooker into thinking it has a ferrous pot on it, it is quite flexible to heat just about anything.

I have successfuly tested several more radical hacks to these things. I cannot mention all of them as they are due to be employed commercially but rest assured that these things can very creatively replace a bunch of heavy electrical consuming entities in your home. I think you can see what I am getting at.

I should maybe start a hacked induction thread somewhere. It isn't exactly overunity though is it?

Regards,

MW383

[MW383]

OK back to Stubblefield. Let's blow things apart a tad. Hopefully the readers find some of this useful. Basically this is a copy of a letter I sent out recently. I'm presuming its original recipient does not mind my desire to get more people thinking about some of these things.

Cheers!

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…In regards to Stubblefield; you are on the right track in regards to organized windings. As we have discussed there is the magnetic aspect of the primary itself. I have thought about this a bit and am certain that aligned irons the only way to go. Basically you have a more organized flux path traveling from core (or inner diameter of primary) to secondary (or outer diameter of primary). Now let’s look at copper for a bit. Pass a current through just a copper coil, now visualize the cross section of this copper wire, there is a localized field around this wire. If you have a magnetized iron next to it, there should be a magnetic effect between the 2. <I employ others to give a more expert opinion on this> Wild winding not only wrecks direct flux travel from ID to OD standpoint, but could induce localized confusion in regards to potential magnetic effects occurring between adjacent copper and iron wires.

Think more on magnetic fields in the primary. Do we really care how magnetized the core itself is? I do a little but really care more about the actual saturation of primary windings more. Having iron present is a cool way to help this situation. So it pulls flux from the core and puts it where it is needed most (uniformly through the core). This can only help the inductive process into a secondary. So keep those irons aligned and make a neat flux path through the system.

There is another very good reason for aligned Irons and that is electrolytic path. We want an organized electrolytic path through the cross section of the cell and also coming into the cell from the outside earth surroundings. One must not forget that we are really in the business of collecting extra electrons from the earth. Electrochemically Iron is being oxidized (losing electrons) while copper is being reduced (gaining electrons). This is critical in understanding the operation of the cell and also its organized construction. So running in a jar of water, the iron is the only thing that loses its electrons. The electrolyte (water in our case) is the means of exchange. The OH- aspect of the water is what really does the moving of electrons, the missing H is liberated as a gas. If you look at standard commercial electrochemistries, a salt enhanced water electrolyte is most common. For example alkaline cells utilize potassium hydroxide (KOH). The salt is there to improve conductivity thus greatly widening the electron flow bandwidth. SO.....if you had an incoming supply of free electrons (earth), they will end up attaching to the OH- component of our plain water ; probably near to the surface of the Iron. Now there still is the straight up Iron-Copper reaction occurring but the earth electrons greatly (in theory) outnumber the Iron supplied electrons, so for a high electrical output scenario, there is still only a small internal chemical reaction because of free stuff we collect thus a possible truth to the urban legend that the electrodes look very un-reacted after extended periods of operation. I would expect only extremely slight voltage increases in ground compared to in jar because ultimately we are still bound by voltage potentials associated with this chemistry. I would also expect there to be an amperage increase (and hopefully to the magnitudes Stubblefield describes).

We definitely want the widest door possible between the earth and the cell. Think of the door in surface area terms. Bottom line, we want a great big 'electron flow door' to outside world and we want a shrieking neon light at the door saying "welcome nice little earth electrons!" Another thing to consider; do not strangulate the primary coil electrolytically by secondary coil construction. Obviously you want the secondary close but we need an electrolytic gap between the 2. One can use a battery grade polypropylene separator layer which should promote decent capillary action from main opening below (directly open to earth). I would also suppose that a layer of plastic mesh could also be employed for this purpose (I think capillary action would be worse with this though). As long as there is some way in.

We can make a great fundamental cell of this there is no doubt. This eliminates 1 of 3 things I see. The other 2 biggies will be earth placement and the frequency aspect.

I have made contact with a local dowser group about this but they have not returned my inquiry so I guess I am on my own. I can either learn their black magic or find some other way to detect a good spot. I have been reading a lot of geomagnetic prospecting patents lately. Basically they have what appears to be a greatly improved metal detector. Metal detectors are basically tuned to detect electrical dipoles around underground objects within a small depth range. They are obviously limited in their scope and ability. The geo-prospecting people are able to penetrate thousands of feet deep via various frequencies. They then measure a voltage response thus telling them not only where the dipole is, but how deep it is. Dipole being oil, ores, etc... in this case. This technology was widely employed at one point in time and eventually replaced by much more sophisticated systems.

As far as the frequency thing, I remain interested in recent posts by Tishitang. Great battery construction good but without harmonious earth interaction, we will not have much. I think we have a great direction with Tishitang's input.

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[jeanna]

I'm not sure in what context you are asking me this (Hacked Induction Cookers?)
For hacked induction cookers, again a simple soft iron = the best.

thanks for that.

I take it you want to inductively heat a liquid?

I want to use the secondary from a joule thief that produces voltage spikes up to 450v at 5khz from  and 90v at210kh to create the necessary influence to the wire fe or cu to make it hot enough to cook something.

I should maybe start a hacked induction thread somewhere. It isn't exactly overunity though is it?

Not at the moment, but after we break through the walls in our minds that tell us we can't, it will be. Or, it will take so little and give back so much, it doesn't matter.


Thank you, MW383
Again, you have brought in otherwise unknown material.

jeanna

[MW383]

I want to use the secondary from a joule thief that produces voltage spikes up to 450v at 5khz from  and 90v at210kh to create the necessary influence to the wire fe or cu to make it hot enough to cook something.

I am not familiar with joule theif and am quite surprise by what you can make it do in regards to what you can make it do. Cool. As far as the 5Khz I think this will be to low in being able to produce eddy current required for heating. Is there a clever way to increase frequency? The voltage is certainly there, I would shoot for at least 20Khz somehow. I wish I knew if it were possible but am just beginning my crash course in electrical schooling. The 210Khz is quite a bit higher than a commercial inductive cooking unit but I need to look into this because maybe with a different material, it could be used. More questions I can pose to the induction engineer on Monday!

As far a joule thief goes, what kind of power is associated with your voltage / frequencies? Another thought I have is to consider smaller, perhaps unique coil constructions as opposed to big pancake which requires lots of power. Which now reminds me of another trick induction cooker people play in regards to their coil. On the bottom side of it there are mu-metal pieces applied. This acts as a sheild for pile of electronics directly below the coil but also has field strengthening abilities on the opposite side (field being used). Mu-metal basically a highly magnetic permeable material. Since magnetic fields can only be redirected and never outright blocked, mu-metal sits there and justs soaks everything up coming near it so in the case of induction cooker it grabs everything thus nothing left to travel downwards to freaky electronicy things.

Cheers!

MW383

[jeanna]

As far a joule thief goes, what kind of power is associated with your voltage / frequencies?


... Mu-metal basically a highly magnetic permeable material. Since magnetic fields can only be redirected and never outright blocked, mu-metal sits there and justs soaks everything up coming near it so in the case of induction cooker it grabs everything
...

The very sweet thing about the joule thief is that it is an easy pulse width modulator. A little turn of the potentiometer at the base of the transistor and the frequency changes.
The thing that I noticed this year is that when the frequency goes one way the voltage goes the other. And it is not linear.
But, if I can get 450v at 5 kh I am sure I can get 200v at 20khz, (I think it is in my notes somewhere.) but I do not know if that is enough to heat up a heating unit.

What is exciting me from what you are telling us is that there is a chance.

I think maybe we should start a new thread, so we can try some things and not interrupt these great EER experiments. Ist said he was then he disappeared. Maybe his thread is the place.

jeanna