What exactly is the problem with these devices?

[nightlife]

Here is some more info on the 1903 Model A engine. I also have some pictures but I dont know how to post them.

FORD MODEL "T" MAGNETIC MODIFICATION


"Report that the 1st run batch of Model T engines could be modified to run
without fuel using self-sustaining magnetic repulsion.


-> Model T Magnetic Engine - 04/06/97
->Information that linked John Keely to Henry Ford, Sr.


The Model T used a hand-cranked magneto starting system to provide the spark
that exploded the gas to move the pistons. This is how a lawnmower produces
the spark needed to keep its engine running. The flywheel had very strong
magnets embedded in it. The bell housing that surrounded the flywheel had
coils of wire which would produce a nasty high voltage spark when the flywheel
rotated the magnetic field past the coils. This spark is what ignited the
gasoline in the cylinders. The magneto type starting system had to be hand
cranked to get the motor running, and the burning gasoline would keep it
running once started.


The first year model T's built by Ford had a special flywheel and housing that
was said to have been designed by John Worrell Keely and sold to Henry Ford.
Ford bought the design as a form of insurance because of all the harassment
he was getting from vested interests not wanting to see him succeed. After
20,000 to 30,000 cars went out, Ford was threatened by oil and gas interests
trying to coerce him to shut down production. It was not made clear who these
forces were or why they were trying to put Ford out of business.


After the first year of manufacturing Model T's, efforts were renewed to shut
Ford down. At this point, Ford then gave THEM an ultimatum, either leave he
and his family alone OR "He would send every Ford Model T owner a set of cow
magnets which fit in special slots that were cut into the bell housings on the
first year run of cars". This bell housing was cast into the engine block and
not a separate unit as on modern vehicles.


The flywheels were the hand cranked units having Vee magnets. They were
magnetos that when cranked, moved the magnets past a coil to produce a very
high voltage/current to spark the plugs. It produced a vicious spark.


Once the cow magnets were placed in the slots, the hand crank was turned and
the flywheel would spin on its own, generating up to 40 HP and completely self
running. You had to get the flywheel spinning to a minimum rpm before the
magnetic drive effect would take place.


Ford told his opponents that all Model T owners would then be running their
cars for FREE, not requiring any gasoline or other fuel. And that the
principle would be copied and applied to all machinery. Once Ford's opposing
forces verified the truth of this, "THEY" instantly ceased all attempts at
intimidating Ford and his company succeeded beyond their wildest dreams.


My contact said there were three fellows who got wind of this story several
years ago. They secured a first-run Model T and found it did indeed have
strange slots on the bell housing. Magnets were inserted and when they cranked
it, the flywheel began to spin on its own.


Based on this initial verifying experiment, they eventually produced a 40hp
version which was self-running, using the same magneto system. A demonstration
was scheduled in a larger city and two of the men drove the prototype to the
demonstration, the third man was ill and could not attend.


The demonstration went off without a hitch and was enthusiastically received.
Plans and contacts were made for duplicating the prototype for further tests
that would be followed by marketing.


As the two men were driving home late that evening with their prototype, their
vehicle was run off the road. The next day, their vehicle was found overturned,
both bodies lying in a ditch with their throats slit and the prototype was gone.


The third man who had been too ill to attend the demonstration packed up
everything and went into hiding. Word is, this man is still alive, very
paranoid, yet he has not given up on the principle and has gone even further in
his development of the principle.


Ford intended the Model T to be run on ETHANOL, not gasoline, because it was a
renewable fuel. This could have been the bone of contention with the gas/oil
companies.


The original vehicle produced in 1903 was the Model A, of which about 1,700
were produced.


Henry Ford Sr. was born July 30th, 1863 and died on April 7th, 1947. Keely
died in 1898. So there is a nearly a 40 year period when they could quite
possibly have known each other. Ford did make trips to Manhattan and being of
an inventive mind would have heard of Keely, who was written up in many papers
and magazines from 1872 until his death in 1898. It is not too much of a
stretch to envision Ford attending one or more of Keely's many public demon-
strations (as did Tesla who I have NO DOUBT copied much of Keely's discoveries
using electric current instead of mechanically produced vibrations.


The various claims for PMMs (perpetual motion machines), whether magnetic or
gravity driven, always require a restorative kick to keep it running.


A flywheel or weighted arm mounted on a horizontal shaft so that it rotates in
a vertical plane, will fall by the force of 'gravity' and inertia will push it
past the 180 degree point and up to about 270 plus degrees. At that point,
you have to use a 'kicker' to push it past the 360 degree point so that the
rotation will perpetuate. Just like pushing someone on a swing, if you time
your pushes just right, you can drive them in ever higher arcs and eventually
over the 360 mark.


The Model T engine used a weighted crankshaft, that was why the vehicles would
vibrate from side to side due to the inertial kick of the weight. I am also
told that these engines could also idle at very low rpms, something on the
order of 100 or so revolutions per minute. This story is definitely out there
but should be fairly easy to prove.


Perhaps someone out there has access to a Model A or a Model T and can examine
the bell housings on these vehicles. At this point, I think the weighted
crankshaft would be necessary to the operation of the magnetic engine since it
would provide the restorative force.

[eavogels]

So my question is what is problem with these devices?  What is the one thing that keeps them from becoming main stream?  I?m 18 years old I sometime in the future plan on building my own.  I think that one day this could work.

I think that the problem with these devices is the perfection while doing replications. I can very well see in my own devices that often a less balanced wheel, that has it's 1 gram heavier point exactly on the right spot, performce better than a 100% perfectly balanced wheel.
Often are the devices that actually work not the best mechanical art works: magnets are handheld or glued with tape. The fact that tape is more or less flexible, can be the most important part of the device.

When replicating they are some things that destroy the basic idea:
1. Often are replicaters people that during replicating are building in their own idea's, because they think they understand exactly how the device works.
2. Some replicators use Fred Flinstone technique.
3. Some replicators are building High Tech devices, and thereby removing all the things that made the device run (like the bad tape)

At the end everyone starts to disbelieve the real inventor since often the inventor is not able to replicate his own device anymore.

Regards,
Eric.

[ignilc]

Self rotating magnetic devices can be built. I have built one, it rotates freely

[eavogels]

Self rotating magnetic devices can be built. I have built one, it rotates freely

Hi.
Is that a device you want to share information about?
/Eric

[Koen1]

Einsteinian physics claimed no perpetual motion device could be build. So they never looked at any of them.

Now the fact they didn't look should support their original claim?

I fear you misunderstand. Einsteinian physics does not claim perpetual motion is impossible;
Einsteinian physics is simply an extension of the preceding physics systems.
It is the "laws of nature" that state that perpetual motion or "free energy" in principally impossible.
And Einsteinian physics respects the "laws of nature".

Also it is not true that they never looked at any claimed perpetuum mobile.
From quite early recorded modern history claims have been made and studied of various perpetuum mobile.
None of them were proven to actually work, or at least none of them that the public was told about.
Examples are the "Peringeus wheel" and the "Bessler wheel".

And don't forget that a lot of known principles of physics were also not applied; the steam engine for example was known in ancient Greece already, but only applied industrially about 2000 years later. Even though industrial use was suggested by Archimedes already.
You talk as if perpetuum mobile have been suppressed structurally... Do you think the steam engine was actively suppressed?

If you show them one they will call you a lunatic. Data is irrelevant in science!!!!

Really? Since when? What proven OU devices have actually been studied then?

Meanwhile in the real world the original claim still goes unsupported. the biggest nonsense of it all is that   closed systems do not exist. It's an imaginary universe.

Ah. Well, yes and no. Obviously there is always some connection with the rest of reality, even in a closed system. But you have to admit that a closed circuit  consisting of a battery, a wire, and a LED for example clearly contains the current flow that causes the LED to light up inside itself, and can be considered in that aspect to be a system closed off from the outside? So closed systems do exist, in a way.
Your point is that open systems have the possibility to harness energy that is available outside the systems internal machinery/mechanisms.
That is obviously true. But are those systems acually OU? If we include the existence of wind, for example, in our description of the system, then the system becomes closed once again. The wind may power a windmill, which puts out energy that we did not put into the device outselves. From that view, a windmill in OU because we do not input any energy ourselves, but we can use the output, and the output is more than what we input. But is we consider that wind is moving atmosphere, and if we include the entire atmosphere including naturally occurring winds into our description of the system, then the system already contained the energy because it already contains the wind, and even though the energy may be focussed and transferred by the windmill into a form that we can use more readily than the motion of air, the system only puts out energy that was actually already present in the wind. So if we look at it that way, we again have a closed system with a COP < 1.
Yes, that is energy which occurs naturally in natures physical processes, and yes, we can use that energy like we do in windmills.
No, that is still not over unity.

The temperature changes all day, that's pure energy. There is plenty of sun and wind.

And where does that energy come from, ultimately? From the fusion reactions inside the sun, and the gravity of the planetary and solar masses.
When that runs out, in millions of years, the system will halt. The energy source will be depleted. Clearly not over unity nor free energy.

Every particle is a magnetic perpetual motion device.

Oh really? So you claim magnetism is responsible for the fact that atoms do not implode? Interesting view.
Doesn't accord with science, which usually brings forward the weak and strong nuclear forces to accomplish that,
but still interesting view.