Muller Dynamo

[DeepCut]

Neither Bearden nor Bedini have built any OU devices.

I seriously doubt you will get OU from anything based on simple induction.

But yes it's fun tinkering ;+}

[Magluvin]

Didnt have time lately to play, but tonight Im going to try some things that may get me the speedup.

Im convinced that my magnets on the rotor are too close to the coil, the ones approaching and leaving the coil at the same time. One side is producing pos output and the other negative at the same time. Bad Bad Bad.   ;]

So the first test will be to use larger mags(large coil) and instead of 8, stepping down to 4 for more spacing.

If, in my old 8 mag setup, the approaching pass creates lets say a positive swing and the departure produces a negative, then in my shown setup there may be some canceling out of sorts, causing maybe more drag and never speedup. So I am very positive that I will get much more out when going with the 4 mag setup.   Will try the existing mags when trying 4 first, then step up to the large. 1/2in dia x 1/2in width diametric N48 mags.  More drive force, more gen and more speed to test the outer reaches.



The other test is to see if I can get the coil/cap to resonate using the bemf to pulse the coil/cap(LC) when the rotor is at speed to do so.   Ill use a cap in series with a diode to send the pulse from the drive coils to the coil/cap. Adding the input cap will allow the coil/cap to be freer to resonate.

These are just strong thoughts over the time I havnt been working on it.

If the spacing gives me speedup, then we will have learned something. If not(with this coil) then my alternative would be to try to get the LC to ring via the bemf pulses at the freq(rotor speed) and try to regulate the speed to get the LC to peak and see what comes of it.  As it were before, the speed was regulated due to lenz getting stronger near resonance(magnet spacing). Trying the bemf pulse, I wont have restriction of the rotor not getting up to a speed that lets the LC peak, as we saw in my vid, just a little hand helped speedup increased the output quite a bit.  ;]

It will all be interesting.. Im also going to try 16 mags alternating N and S out, being that if we have a N approaching and S departing, the co-op effort will be an increase through each phase being both sides of the coil are generating the same phase in the coil.

Cant wait till after work...


Mags

[konehead]

hi Magnluvin

yes if two magnets at once are inducing themselves at same upon a single core/coil then you would expect some cancellazations happening - maybe however the stronger-force of the two will dominate, and over-ride the other weaker force, which is a bit different than cancelling but does seem like a lot of waste at least (just talking while I write)
As for the back-emf from drive coil back into caps running the drive coil - I am  working on that now and have always been working on this really -

anyways I dont think your idea of the series-cap "to resonate" is going to work (you will find out) since if you "directly" steer the recovered-backemf/recoil back "into itself" it will cause  severe lugging - even if you have that series cap -  it needs to be isolated totally -

one way is to fill up cap no#1 with backefm with diode off the DRAIN of mosfet, and then dump this cap no#1 into a cap no#2 in-between motor coil pulsing, in its timing.
you will lose some energy here, as dumping cap into other makes the voltage of caps even out (so if 24V in cap no#1 and you dump into empty cap no#2, now you get 12V in both caps - if cap#2 is already half full or 3/4 full then of course it will fill higher, and also will fill faster, since the cap has less resistance against if filling up when already somewhat filled)

OK that is called the bucket-brigade approach as its like passing buckets of water with line of people in old days during fighting a fire...your backemf should really rocket the first  cap up in volts very fast - wiht larger UF cap it fills slower... 

Other approach is to not dump one cap into other, but simply to have a normally-ON switches OFF switch (mosfet) on one leg of the cap, to DISCONNECT it form its "source" (motor coil) whenever that cap hits a load (such as filling up the drive-coil cap)

for filling up the drive-coil cap ( I call it the RUN cap) what I do is connect the cap directly to the drive-coils, as if the cap is going to run the whole thing by itself - then periodically, (say once per revolution of motor is easy to do)  the battery, or whatever power supply you have, is swtiched-INTO to this RUN cap....and this is done IN BETWEEN motor coil pulses.
you will have to experiment with cap size to see what can sustain your motor with the particular pulsing you choose from the power supply....

this is nice to do now you can see a looper is only some means to keep that RUN cap filled up (and BETWEEN motor coil pulses)

What I do for a "normally-ON switches OFF" mosfet is to simply change the driver from a 4421 to a 4422 - also a hall effect change to one that is "opposite" will do this too.

right now I have a single halleffect doing timing of the driver/mosfet meant particular for the dumping of backemf cap into load, (this has 4421 driver so its "normally OFF swtiches ON")

and on "eadh side" of this single halleffect I put two halleffects (so one halleffect touching each side of middle halleffect) and these two halleffects connect paralell (pin 1 to 1 2 to 2 3 to 3) and these two halleffects "togethrer" trigger a 4422 driver, so now it will be thee two paralell-halls will be swtiching a  nomrally-ON and swtiches OFF mosfet-switch of longer pulse width than the middle halleffect that controls the dump of cap to LOAD itself.......so I have the two hallefects on each side of the single halleffect to "make sure" that cap is fully-disconnected when the middle halleffect triggers the dump to the load...

one other way (third) to do this bakcemf-emf steered-"back" into a drive coil cap (this might be simplest) is to simply split two motor coil circuits up into two differnet circuits.....with different power supplys - such as runnig one motor coil off battery no 1 and other motor coil off battery no 2...(simple) with both motor coils never being turned on simultaneous too...

now for sure you motor coils are isolated from one another - now do the RUN cap approach for each motor motor coil- where a RUN cap actually hits the coils, but this run cap is periodically filled up by the power supply (battery)  - say once per revolution as already descirbe....so now two run caps will be needed....

now fill up the opposite run cap no#2  from the backemf-diode of motor coils no#1, and run cap no#1 fills up from the backemf-diode of motor coil no#2

now additionally "switch-short" (not contiuous dead-short)  the remaining pure-generator coils at their peaks and guide the power collected from the quick-collapsing coil shorting (power comes from when shorting-switch OPENS after switch has closed and collapsed coil) and put this power into the also into the same caps that were jsut filled up with the backemf ("should" loop) - the caps will fill easier and quicker form the swtihced-coilshorting if they have been alredy "primed" up in voltage  with the backemf diode....but you can have seperate caps if you want...

[Magluvin]

Hey Kone

I wrote that post at lunch, and back at work I thought of the diode would just load the cap that I suggested.  Then nada. lol
But What I meant to convey was some type of coupling, which may not be needed, as I will probably be taking what ever out of the LC for storage(cap). Will try some things.

Im reed switching at the moment.   I can reed switch the bemf from the drive coil to the LC being the timing on the rotor is good.  Even 2 reeds in series to get shorter timing if need be. 

I have some hall sensors. I ordered 3 for replacements in my ebike hub motor. Guess what? 1 went bad. lol Wasnt eazy digging the old one from the motor core, but worked.
So Ill have to try them here soon also.
I also have one from a hard drive motor, i believe it was, but some type of servo, anyway, it has 2 outputs that respond to N or S and outputs to the corresponding wire out.  So it could control a single phase or 2.  Found the data sheet for it.  Havnt used it yet.

Ok, bench time.

Mags

[Magluvin]

well, no speedup yet. Drives me nuts.  ;]  Maybe with this coil the window is very small.

But with 4 of the larger mags, Im getting more torque and speed on the rotor, at no extra expense. Bigger is better. ;]

Now im getting some good charge from the LC with a lamp in series.  120v 4w candle flame shape bulb. Without the cap the charge is dull.  With the cap, LCR, the cap seems to bring things to life. Upward of 130v on the coil while lighting the bulb about half brightness through the cap 1uf.

At such high voltages, charging a 1 farad cap to say 12v, will always seem like a load to the coil/cap. 

And, when the rotor is in lock with the LC just below resonance(peak), with the coil very close to the rotor, say the coil voltage is 20v, and peak of say 80v if the rotor had a bit more power in to peak, then I move the coil a bit away from the rotor. Coil voltage drops, but the rotor speeds up, bringing the voltage back up . Pull away a bit more and the voltage drops, the rotor speeds up and voltage on the coil is back again, but a bit more(closer to resonance peak).

So, going with bigger stronger mags helped efficiency. Same coils, same 5v 4 AA nimh, same reed switch.

Moving the coil away from the rotor allows for more efficiency at the motor end while output is increased. 
So I see we can build for the minimum input to provide good peak output.   Its like at a distance its easy to get the LC to ring.

Its going to be an interesting week.

The rotor can get above 3000 rpm now. A bit scary let alone 9000 rpm.  ;]  From what im getting, my working peak states are only under 200hz.  big coil.  Higher(smaller cap) speeds(freq) dont provide much, so I doubt that speedup with just "this" coil alone without a cap will happen. When it happened it was with a cap. I like low freq though.

More tomorrow...

Mags