Muller Dynamo

[nul-points]

 

Question on how I hooked up RomeroUK generator in boost configuration to overcome limitations of only 1 coil/pair generator set.
Quick and dirty of how I did it.

See Video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QY5fbcwOLTQ

Ben K4ZEP

Ben

that's a great test!


i'm in the final stages of the mech aspects - both stators plates complete but now trying to solve the compromise of securing the motor to the baseboard within the space constraints imposed by the eventual coil positions

i have a 3V 1A DC motor as drive, so my V:I ratio is going to be a lot lower than the regular pulse drive route, meaning i don't need to be so concerned with achieving good volts out, but i do need to get good current

i was considering moving to a parallel config for my gen coils to bump the o/p current - that's exactly what you've tested and confirmed, so many thanks for sharing that!


your PSU 'boost' config is very interesting

one aspect is that you've already 'looped' your o/p back to your i/p - even by joining in series

another aspect is that, although you only have one gen coil so far, you've 'simulated' the output from the remaining coils to some extent, by plugging in your PSU in their place

so - even with a single gen coil you've been able to vary the operating point and already observe a change in Lenz-related behaviour as a function of the rpm


i was also interested to see that, although it was only producing a few tens of mA, your gen coil o/p wasn't creating a 'bottleneck' in your series loop - ie., you weren't degrading the drive requirements by using this config

it would be interesting to see the effect of an adjustable low-to-medium impedance load in parallel with the motor drive with this initial 'boost' setup to get a feel for any 'spare-capacity' there might be in the system, and if/how that interacts with the changes around the Lenz-related transition rpm

obviously, having the PSU in circuit at present, instead of the remaining coils, this might dominate the behaviour too much to see how a single gen coil performs - but in any case, the way ahead looks good for when you move on to add more gen coils


a little earlier you sounded a bit disheartened with how things were going  - and then you pull this gem out of the bag 

it may be the 'World's Smallest Lab' but it's definitely making some big contributions to our knowledge-base on the behaviour of these systems!


many thanks
np


http://docsfreelunch.blogspot.com

[Hoppy]

so think in that way - if I measured the voltage acorss a DC cap when it is also shorted out with "dead short"at same time obviously its near zero volts. and so what?
that is what specific resistve loading is for, but this isnt "right" either - its a "two stage" cap filling, cap idschage routine I am looking for and doing

Hi Doug,

Thanks for your in depth reply and yes, the voltage will be virtually zero which is the point, that your load will dictate the power consumption. If you charge your cap without a load to 30V DC and then disconnect and discharge it to a load, you may get 500mA for a split second but the energy drawn from the cap is calculated over a period of time, so your 500mA will not be a constant at 30V. You need to measure the voltage across the cap connected across your chosen load to calculate the power and energy over time and compare this to the input energy to get the true COP and a full understanding of performance.

Sorry if I've misunderstood you but this is how I'm reading your posts. A circuit schematic of your setup will make it easier to understand how you are setup. This should include your measuring points for clarity.

Hoppy

[Hoppy]

Question on how I hooked up RomeroUK generator in boost configuration to overcome limitations of only 1 coil/pair generator set.
Quick and dirty of how I did it.

See Video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QY5fbcwOLTQ


Ben K4ZEP

Hi Ben,

What is the combined voltage across the cap and motor coils compared to your supply voltage? If your cap is discharged at the start of the test, you should see the voltage rising on the cap and stabilising when the voltage across the motor coils and cap equals the supply voltage, minus the forward voltage drop of the two bridge diodes which are in forward conduction to pass current to the motor. If you are seeing this, where is the gain?

Hoppy

[k4zep]

Ben

that's a great test!


i'm in the final stages of the mech aspects - both stators plates complete but now trying to solve the compromise of securing the motor to the baseboard within the space constraints imposed by the eventual coil positions

i have a 3V 1A DC motor as drive, so my V:I ratio is going to be a lot lower than the regular pulse drive route, meaning i don't need to be so concerned with achieving good volts out, but i do need to get good current

i was considering moving to a parallel config for my gen coils to bump the o/p current - that's exactly what you've tested and confirmed, so many thanks for sharing that!


your PSU 'boost' config is very interesting

one aspect is that you've already 'looped' your o/p back to your i/p - even by joining in series

another aspect is that, although you only have one gen coil so far, you've 'simulated' the output from the remaining coils to some extent, by plugging in your PSU in their place

so - even with a single gen coil you've been able to vary the operating point and already observe a change in Lenz-related behaviour as a function of the rpm


i was also interested to see that, although it was only producing a few tens of mA, your gen coil o/p wasn't creating a 'bottleneck' in your series loop - ie., you weren't degrading the drive requirements by using this config

it would be interesting to see the effect of an adjustable low-to-medium impedance load in parallel with the motor drive with this initial 'boost' setup to get a feel for any 'spare-capacity' there might be in the system, and if/how that interacts with the changes around the Lenz-related transition rpm

obviously, having the PSU in circuit at present, instead of the remaining coils, this might dominate the behaviour too much to see how a single gen coil performs - but in any case, the way ahead looks good for when you move on to add more gen coils


a little earlier you sounded a bit disheartened with how things were going  - and then you pull this gem out of the bag 

it may be the 'World's Smallest Lab' but it's definitely making some big contributions to our knowledge-base on the behaviour of these systems!


many thanks
np


http://docsfreelunch.blogspot.com

Good Morning NP,

I was sort of down the last few days.  Nothing was working, mechanically, side loading due to poor alignment (eyeball) of the generator cores produced so much drag/load on the bearings (pounding) that I could not overcome it with the simple "hall effect" drive, finally got the scope out and discovered it was not switching properly, added the TIP41 transistor and while current went up about 10mA, motor portion of circuit worked perfectly then.  Removed 4 generator coils as just too much mechanical loading on the rotor and was always about 2 VDC below power supply so no chance of testing, piddled and piddled with it, becoming more and more disgusted with my inability to build
a decent device at these power levels in my limited space.  Then in total disgust, while cleaning up shop (closet)to chuck this whole project (yah, it was whipping my buttinsky) , this test sort of floated up out of all the data available.  As soon as I got additional RPM @ same input voltage from the variable PS, I knew it was working.  It took a couple hours of testing to find the best operating point and RPM in the device and to logicall show how/why it was occuring at the most simplistic level.  In retrospect, I "undersigned" mechanically not realizing how powerful the offset magnets/coils mechanical pulses were back into the rotor, as I only built it to do basic research on the motor/gen. and that was almost the downfall of the unit.

That said:

I can verify that the magnet at the end of a coil can add about 60mv/coil when adjusted correctly in both a horozontal and vertical position. .  This doesn't sound like much but if you have
7-9 coil  pairs, this will become significant. 

I have not verified that doubling up on the bridge rectifiers will help but logically as the power levels go up, this should also add a few tenths of a volt to the total voltage levels in the generator. 

Why the lenz effect seems to go down and output of the generator becomes positive relative to the overall system I am not certain at this time, I suspect a resonance in the device but have not swept the coil/bridge/Cap with a signal generator to verify this. It could be a new phenomenon that is not understood, I just don't know.  I don't know if paralleling the coils increased the current capability of the system or dropped it into the correct inductance range (Parallel coils) to resonate.  I do know in the series coil configuration, it did not work in my system, I never reached a crossover point initially as probably the point was too low with the increased series inductance of the two coils (40-50mH)without magnets.  But remember, this is just a test rig. 

The best of luck on your pursuit of this will-o-the wisp.....When you start from scratch, just getting all the mechanics to fall into place,
winding all those damn coils, getting the parts together, is a heck of a lot of work.  If you see something that works in his device, don't redesign it, use it. When the thing doesn't work, don't stop, back up, try again!  This is not a slam bam, thank you mam type of system, I have learned so many new things that I "thought" I knew, but didn't building this device, what can I say.  Remember, Efficiency, efficiency, efficiency.  That is one of the many "keys" to this device, a mA saved in the motor or generator is 1 mA closer to OU!  The video that Romero showed us was worth a thousand words, the nitty gritty of making it work, for understanding, needs a million, give or take.  So much more to say, so many impressions not yet proved, what fun we are having!

Going to be gone most of the day, maybe add another coil tonight.

So we continue, this is not the end, only the beginning.

Ben K4ZEP

[k4zep]

Hi Ben,

What is the combined voltage across the cap and motor coils compared to your supply voltage? If your cap is discharged at the start of the test, you should see the voltage rising on the cap and stabilising when the voltage across the motor coils and cap equals the supply voltage, minus the forward voltage drop of the two bridge diodes which are in forward conduction to pass current to the motor. If you are seeing this, where is the gain?

Hoppy

Morning Hoppy,

You are absolutely correct in your description of a non working system.  In the video, when I start it @ 14.00 VDC, you will note the voltage across the cap rises to about 5.4 VDC and the SUM of these two voltages is about 19.5 VDC which is presented/shown to the motor coils as shown on the second DVM in the back to the right.  The gain is that the voltage across the CAP is extra voltage seen in the loop from the generator.  IF it is not working, you will see exactly what you have described (total of 14VDC in loop) and I have seen so many times in this quest.  Remember this boost generator output is a totally electrically isolated system, separate from the motor, IN SERIES with the primary power supply,  hence the ability to add it to the loop.  Watch the two DVM's in the video again as I start the system.

Respectfully
Ben K4ZEP