Muller Dynamo

[plengo]

Hi Konehead
I still cant ''see'' how the backing magnets would help spin the rotor. Anyway, I'll remove the gen coils and cores and try to get some more speed with the magnets. I'm also interested about the  strange spikes in the midle of the pulse that occourse only with the magnets behind. It's not bemf couse this spike is in the midle of the pulse. Now i'm running the rotor  with romero's driving circuit couse is simple  but i'll try the  mosfets circuit.The driving circuit has a diode that recovers some power and send it back to the battery. I have disconnected the diode and connected a 4700uF cap and filled up to 20V. This is strange couse the pulse is only 12.5V

Mariuscivi,


A long time ago on this thread I mentioned what were the components that were necessary (at least I believe it to be) to make this motor happen.


One was what I called that "tri-gate" or Howard Johnson gate that attracts the train and repels it at the other side and Howard explained that the magnet gives a PULSE when that happens.


I think you are finding the PULSE now and somehow the disposition of your magnets (back and rotor) plust the dynamic magnetic field of the coil at that moment is creating this "tri-gate" phenomena and giving this extra pulse on your scope.


It is very difficult to explain what I am saying so my advice is to look into Howard Johnson magnetic motor and his explanations about it so that you can understand and hopefully improve your replication motor.


Great work and persistance my friend.

Fausto.

[mariuscivic]

Hi Plengo and all

Nice to hear from you again. I know about the magnetic gate that Howard Jonson invented but i dont think that this is the case. He was using lots more magnets and they were not all neos. Some of the magnets were from rubber and they had the possibillity to flip the polarity or something like that.
I think i know from were do those little pulses came from. They are from the magnet of the rotor but is amplified by the backing magnets of the driving coil. It is the peak from the sine wave that is created by the driving coil. With the diode we send it back to the battery. When the peak is higher than the pulse then the driving coil becomes a gen coil too but only half sine. This is another reason why the rpm doesn't go so high.

I have removed all the gen coils from the stator plates and the vibrations are allmost zero. Also the speedup effect with the magnets is gone too. As i susppected ( in my case) the magnets were reducing the vibration allowing the rotor to spin free. I'm using  a VCR head as bearing wich is verry precise; the vibrations came from the stator plates wich are only 6mm thick.

From my point of view, we need some kind of ''divine intervention'' to give us a kick in the ass to go further

[konehead]

Hi Marisivic
Best way for some divine intervention I can recommend besides prayers is to get handfuls of thin neo magnets - and put them behind your motor coil, one by one.....wait a minute or so after putting them on the back of the motor coil, since the "act" of placing them there will slow the rotor and you might not think they do anything good.,,,but if you wait and IF they are going to do good, you will get an increase in speed...ammeter wont show the speed-up. as less draw, but the rpm meter will....so let it speed up until it settles...then add another magnet stacked on top of that one...again just the act of putting it there might slow it, but wait awhile wihtout touching anythin...see if it really helps....once you get some speed up then adjsut timing a bit more advanced...you will get more speed up...then go back and stack magnets again on bottom motor coil or top motor coil again...
when it starts to slow when you pop another magnet on top and you have let it settle with "hands off", then that is far as you can go wiith the motor coils...
now whatever size stack worked with the motor coils, then use same size stack to affect the rotor magnets in other places on the stator PLATE (this now gets into mysterious "who knows" Howard Johnson territory) - start at 180 degrees off from motor coils, and adjust 1mm this way and that way - again, just grabbing the magnet stack to adjsut, and putting pressure on it will casue it to slow!
So what I do is keep pressure on that magnet stack, and move it in very slow spiraling circles outward (1/2mm changes)and keep eyes on the rpm meter.....you might get it to go up 20rpm is all but that is good - you found something that causes speed up.....now take hands off everything and let it speed up for a minute or so utnil it settles....now you might get 80rpm or 200rpm even, increase in speed after you let it settle hands-off eveything....so now you have that one working....now try another stack - probably in a nearby-potisions of where your odd-number of generator coils would be...do same thing again - go ahead and let it slow when you put pressure on magnet and spiral it around slowly in very small steps until you find a minor speed up, then take hands off let it speed up if it does ...pretty soon you will have doubled your speed...now go and adjsut the timing again...a bit more advanced again - very slightly - sometimes the timing adjust will raise rpms again anohter 200rpm...
Once you get the stack "positions" then experiment with the stack "length" or the strength of the magnets.....again by plopping on one magnet at a time, let it settle to see if any good is being done and look with rpm meter for any minor speed up - if you see somethign good them stack another until you can see the stack is as high as you can go and the rpoms drop wiht any further magnet strength.
the eventual timing you will have at the high speed will nor even run it at start up!!! it will sit there trying to go but timing is way off for start up or slow speeds  - so to get it going, spin the rotor somehow pretty fast and let it take over...
anyways you are looking at 2 or 3 hr session to get somethign good happening, and lots of magnets needed too...excpect some pain from getting fingers pinched...
could be your hall effects are affected by the backing and stator magnets and you might have to swtich to opto-interuppters...I ordered some last week since my halls occaisonal will stick ON from certain magnet postions and polarities even though I made the timning disc even further away so its now on a very high tower away from the rotor and stator plates and magnets...to be 100% reliable and to have complete freedom of stack size and postions and polarities, it might need to be 3 feet away or in other room even...so going to use optos once they come in...I've never used them before, but doesnt look that hard - just need a disc on shaft with slots in it basically to let the light through, then two optos with one disc, and the optos in series - then I can adjsut pulse width while it runs too...

[Scorch]

Another minor update.

Got all coils completed and mounted on the 1/4" acrylic stator plates and assembled the stator plates with rotor which is currently supported by just a 1/4" stainless all thread and 1/4" ball bearings.
Can already see some interesting characteristics of this set up where the rotor has a "sweet spot" where it just kind of 'floats' between the stator plates.
And when I rotate one stator plate there are different positions where the rotor might have more than one 'home' position.
And, even though I have not yet installed any bias magnets, its quite easy to spin the rotor by hand.

BUT, as I had already suspected, the small 1/4" shaft and ball bearings are totally insufficient to handle the forces and even the 1/4" acrylic stator plates might be a little weak.
And I decided to upgrade to a 3/8" precision shaft with 3/8" precision bronze bearings to be mounted in 1/2" thick stator plates.

SO; I am now waiting for parts again. . .

And, of course, after building that again; will probably still want to build a better rotor because the holes in this laser cut rotor are not completely square and each magnet is at a slight angle. . .

SO, apparently, if you want it done CORRECTLY; do NOT rely on the professional 'perfection' of a 'precision', high end, laser cutter and do it by HAND!

}:>

[mariuscivic]

Hi Scorch and all
Your rotor looks just like mine; the same laser cut not perfect vertical.

Konehead

I went back to my 24 mags NSNS to find some sweat spot there and after all I got some overspeed. The only thing i can think is that the ferrite bar is creating some drag and the magnet neutralise it. I have tried different magnets but the effect is always the same. Is not gaining much : 15-20rpm but is happening only when the magnet is attached to the ferrite. In any other possition the hall is affected. Behind the coil(wich is not connected) seems not.
The video is 8 min of borring rotating disk  but the effect is there.
The disk spins free; the ampmetter shows 22-33mA(12V) to get it at 1200-1400rpm.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gTwVYuJ2vTs&feature=youtu.be