Steven Marks ring of power

[Freedomfuel]

I don't know why Bushwacker has introduced the subject of his HOPE generator into this topic because it has litle in common with the Steve Marks device. 

I am convinced that the Steve Marks device is the real thing because it embodies a deep understanding of the principles involved in true overunity devices.  The fundemental principle that governs all practical FE and OU devices is that a vortex magnetic field is sustained by drawing energy from another greater vortex magnetic field in which it is embedded.  For our purposes the greater vortex magnetic field is the Earth's magnetic field.  Steve Marks says something to this effect in the promotional videos for the Ring Of Power.  If you examine this animated giff you will see the principle behind the device.  Study it carefully:

http://ntint.ntinternals.net/toroid_gen.gif

The drawing shows an endless toroid coil wound on a circular metal core.  The torroid is tapped at the midpoint in order to divide it into two and a DC supply is applied here.  By having equally spaced tappings along the whole length of the coil and moving the supply of DC in opposite directions around the toroid a rotating magnetic field is created in the space outside the device.  This developes into a funnel like vortex that is beamed into the ionosphere from where it collects toroidal packets of magnetic energy carried by the solar wind.  The upward beam acts as a track along which amplified magnetic energy returns back to the device.  I have written an article explaining the principles involved in these devices here:

http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=400.0

What Bushwacker has written about resonating crystaline metal cores using sound frequencies is misinformation.  He may not really be trying to mislead people because it is possible that he has been deceived himself like so many other people.  That is not to say that neither the HOPE or MEG are not receiving any energy from the environment but is they do function like the Marks device it is more by accident than design. You should take more notice of a forum member called Lightwave because he seems to be the most advanced in theory here.

If you do a Google search for Steve Marks you may find one or two messages posted to various forums suggesting that Steve Marks was a conman.  I do not know if this is true or not but I have not been able to find any reference to Marks being convicted of securities fraud.  The only criminal record I know of with regards to Marks is a sexual indiscretion when he was much younger.  The fate of Marks and his device seems to be a complete mystery.

[BushWacker]

Dear FreedomFuel,

   Please examine the animated representation of the MEG as described on the original J.L.Naudin web-site. You may notice a moving electromagnetic field which may create if not an identical but somewhat similar effect on the vacuum as you have tried to describe. This may form a figure 8 shaped field rather than a simple circular field however there is much yet to learn that only hands on experimentation can show. Rather than trying to argue whether theories or assumptions have anything to do with actual reality I will cease commenting when you try and eg me on, and instead provide you with as much information as you may require to educate yourself to the point where you no longer feel the need to bring me down in order to appear as an intellectual giant. It is clear that you are yet quite young and have a lot to learn however the best teacher has always been and will remain to be experience. It is a derivative of and cousin to the word "Experiment".


ON THE POSSIBILITY THAT KNOWN PHENOMENA REGARDING THE ELECTROMAGNETIC NEARFIELD REGION CONTAINS A BLATANT VIOLATION OF FUNDAMENTAL LAWS OF PHYSICS
William J. Beaty 8/28/99

I've always had a niggling suspicion that toroidial transformers are far more weird than anyone suspects. If we wind ourselves a toroidial (donut) inductor and plug it into a 120VAC wall plug, the device will draw a current but ideally won't draw any flow of energy. However, if we then wind a big loose 1-turn secondary "coil" around the donut (through its hole) and short out this "coil", a huge amperage appears in the wire, the coil grows red hot, and many hundreds of watts are drawn from the donut inductor and from the wall outlet. Even if the 1-turn secondary is lifted significantly away from the coil, it still heats up.
Why is this weird? After all, it's just the way that normal transformers work. But think for a moment. In donut-inductors, the magnetic field-lines from each turn of wire extend over to the area enclosed by the next turn of wire, and as a result the magnetic field connects in a circle, and no field extends past the surface of the donut. Yet the secondary coil is entirely *outside* the donut, and therefor the magnetic flux never touches it. We can even use a large, narrow toroid (a hoop-like primary coil) and wind a floppy secondary over it so that the turns of the secondary coil remain many inches away from the wires of the primary and many inches away from the magnetic flux it encloses. The question arises: how does the magnetic field inside the donut-inductor create a current in the secondary coil if no magnetic flux comes anywhere near the the secondary coil? Electronics students always ask this question. The answer in the past has always been that it is simply a law of physics and a part of Maxwell's equations.
My suspicion that the above effect might hide profound mysteries is greatly amplified by the fact that mainstream scientists aren't intrigued by this effect. They essentially have unilaterally DECLARED IT TO BE UNINTERESTING. This is a strange position for a scientist to take. If something is strange and not quite explicable, wouldn't it stimulate their curiousity? Instead it does the opposite! I'm very aware that similar situations are very common throughout modern science. It's a sort of hidden sickness that penetrates every facet of science, and twists science into something that is entirely different than what scientists believe it to be.
The same "sickess" once caused scientists of old to declare that "electricity" to be entirely separate from "magnetism" until the ancient equivalent of a high school science teacher accidentally placed a compass next to a wire during a classroom demonstration, thus proving that the earlier declaration was a fantasy based upon arrogance rather than a learned conclusion based upon experimentation. Up until recently the same "sickness" caused contemporary physicists to dismiss the vector potential in Maxwell's equations as being an unimportant, mathematical abstraction, and this situation held for many decades until Bohm/Anarohov stunned everyone by showing that the Vector Potential had an important and unmistakable impact upon the everyday world.
The field around a donut-inductor is odd because it acts as if it cannot be shielded. If we try to place a metal shield between the primary and secondary of the donut-transformer, this simply creates another "shorted secondary winding" on the transformer. The shield becomes hot and draws an additional energy-flow from the wall plug, but as long as the resistance of the windings is low, this won't stop our original secondary from drawing its own, independant energy flow. Apparently the "voltage circles" surrounding a donut-transformer are unshieldable.
This might be "weird", but unless we can take the phenomena apart and analyze it, we can make no headway. For example, could we remove the transformer's secondary coil to a great distance from the primary? Yes, but only if we make the entire donut-inductor larger, since the secondary must still thread through the "hole in the donut". If we do this, we have not "taken it apart" at all, because it still remains as a functioning transformer. If only we could unwind the secondary partially, and see what happens when we induce voltage in half of a turn, rather than in a single complete turn or in an integer number of complete turns. If our transformer only has a half-turn as its secondary coil, won't it behave quite differently than a conventional transformer? But unfortunately a fractional-turn in a transformer winding is impossible.
Also I've always wondered if the energy-flow between primary and secondary of a transformer is instantaneous or if it obeys the speed of light. It seems as if there's no way to test this, because if we make the transformer bigger, we must lower the operating frequency so that the secondary coil stays within the "nearfield" region. We also must stick to a low frequency, otherwise the whole transformer will start acting like a conventional radio antenna, and we'll no longer be analyzing a transformer, we'll be analyzing a radio transmitter which broadcasts to a distant "loop antenna" (the secondary coil becomes this "loop antenna.")
This problem remained stuck in my mind since high school. Why did I not just drop it and get on with things, like all the rest of science apparantly has done? I did not, because I take intuition seriously. My intuition has led me into many facinating places. Conventional science seems publicly to regard the intuition as irrational and therefor nonexistant (this though many scientists *individually* take their intuitions seriously). My intuition led me to do the opposite of modern science: assume that "inexplicable phenomena" are fiercely important, rather than to assume that they are embarassing mistakes and crackpottery which must be disparaged. My intuition led me to take the "crackpot physics underground" extremely seriously, to follow BBSs like Decker's KEELYNET for years, and to provide several internet forums and a large website dedicated to the "dark underbelly" of science which most scientists prefer would just go away. My intuition led me to study at the feet of Tesla, rather than regarding him as some sort of crackpot/fraud who claimed to have really invented radio, and who thought that he could transmit megawatts across thousands of miles without wires.
OK, we have the initial mystery, and we have the requisite "Lunatic Ravings" which attack the closed-minded scientific preisthood/sheep/orthodoxy. Now on to the meat of the matter!
The key to the mystery of the toroidial transformer is in the Nikola Tesla concepts. If you *know* that Tesla was a crackpot, you might as well just stop reading right now, because the rest of my paper is just a waste of good eye-tracks.
Tesla's energy-transfer system was based on huge tesla coils, but it was also based upon a strange little device: a tiny coil/capacitor device which can reach out and intercept vast flows of energy even though it is far, far smaller than the wavelength of the radio waves which Tesla was broadcasting. (See ENERGY-SUCKING ANTENNAS for more info: http://amasci.com/tesla/tesceive.html). These energy-receiver devices are not unknown to modern science. They explain how atoms can intercept light waves even though atoms are thousands of times too small to behave as efficient radio antennas. (See the papers by Chris Bohren Spaniol/Sutton, and others in the references of tesceive.html.)
There's something weird about these papers. They imply that atoms are surrounded by a vibrating "nearfield EM" field. In my experience such a field is not taken seriously by modern physics. I've never heard about it in all my reading. After all, atoms supposedly emit and absorb photon-particles, they don't spew out EM fields when no photons are being emitted or absorbed. Yet if these fields are real, they should connect with many other phenomena in physics. These "energy sucking" fields appear to be a *possible* hole in physics which *may* lead to amazing new realms of research.
They do lead to one thing: an interesting device which may simply be an exotic sort of transformer, and which might let us do some interesting investigations of the physics of the toroidial inductor, but which also might be a way to directly tap into the infamous "Zero Point Energy" field of empty space and light lightbulbs, run motors, etc. Perpetual Motion!
Build yourself a capacitive-mode "energy sucking antenna" (the kind that has an electrically-small dipole antenna connected to an RLC resonant circuit of extremely high Q-factor). Place it near a toroidial inductor. Power the inductor with AC (perhaps the frequency should be high?) The frequency of the RLC tuned circuit must match the frequency of the AC drive of the donut-inductor. Align the short dipole antenna so that it acts like a sort of "fractional turn" surrounding the toroidial inductor. Measure the energy flow going into the donut and coming out of the tuned circuit. Move the dipole antenna so it is no longer within the nearfield region surrounding the donut-inductor. I suspect that the output wattage will not match the input, and that excess energy comes out of the device.
Obviously this blatently violates Conservation of Energy. Not only that, it also violates the spirit of Newton's laws themselves, because the donut inductor "acts upon" the tuned circuit, yet the tuned circuit is self-shelding and cannot return the favor. A tail-chasing effect would arise, somewhat like the electrical equivalent of an "Inertialess spaceship drive", and energy would apparantly come from nowhere.
According to conventional transformer theory, the fields outside the donut-coil should drive the short dipole, the dipole should store energy in the tuned circuit, this oscillating energy should build up continuously, and an intense e-field should appear on the dipole antenna. Because of the "Energy-sucking Antenna" effect, this e-field should grab quite a large hunk of energy-flow from the donut inductor. If my suspicions are right, then the donut inductor won't be affected: it won't supply energy to the tuned circuit.
This is flat out impossible.
But as the saying goes, "If it happens, it must be possible."
If there is an energy gain, then probably we can wind a small pickup-coil onto the inductor of the tuned circuit, then connect the terminals of the donut-coil to this small pickup-coil instead of to the high-frequency generator. This will form a so-called "stand-alone closed-loop free energy device." Without some sort of governor mechnism such as some back- to-back Zener diodes connected across the tuned circuit, the ZPE energy would build up within fractions of a second and cause a piece of the wire to melt (or perhaps the whole device would vanish in an immense flash and a clould of green copper-oxide smoke.)
Shades of Robert Heinlein! Didn't he write a couple of stories about just this device? I think one was called "Brown Shoes". There was also another one about a shipload of soldiers who landed on a planet where this device had been discovered, and the soldiers immediately muntiny against their "evil" commander and go off into the country to live as they want, independant of any need for fuel and the political networks which control people by keeping them dependant upon that fuel.
The above "donut inductor" effect has not been tested. Then WHY the hell am I rambling on like this? It's all just speculation! Yes. I haven't even done any MATH on this device. Why am I so excited? Simple: its my intuition. My intuition screams maniacally that this is the key that unlocks EVERYTHING. It says that the "hole in physics" can tear open, topple modern Quantum Mechanics, and unleash a vast torrent which will change the world overnight. My vision leads direction to the things that all the "crackpots" have always been saying (maybe they see the same things?) Einstein was wrong, Quantum Mechanics is not what it seems, electromagnetic fields have existence independant of photons, fluid vortices (by electromagnetic analogy) provide energy and allow airplanes to fly without motors, Tesla was right, and modern physics is on a dead-end path which resulted from a misstep that occured many, many years ago. But crackpots have ALWAYS been saying this! Not me. I have not been saying it, I've only been listening to the people who do, and I've been hoping that one of them would give some actual evidence to support their ideas. I only started "spouting the crackpot line" after seeing the missing puzzle-piece snap into place and the entire "mechanism" of the "puzzle" suddenly light up and start to function.
On the off chance that this device is REAL, I decided to add a bunch of peripheral stuff to this paper. Should the device actually work, this paper will become famous, and I can use it for "advertising". Paranoid delusions of grandeaur? Perhaps! But remember, I'm still saying that the effect is untested, that only my intuition is going wild about it, and I acknowledge that my rational western side does not know what to make of all of this. My Western Self it sitting back and being greatly entertained.
If the above device works, then the next step is to... start my own "religion!" I've always wanted one of my own to play with. Watch out L-Ron Hubbard! If this device is real, it shows that the several odd philosophical techniques which I've been using to run my life are entirely valid after all, and ANYONE could have made this discovery if they had just decided to stop strutting around like ego-enflated fools and instead just sit down and concentrate on learning how to take the "blinders" off and actually gaze past themselves and see the rest of the world. So, will it be "Tommy?" Or "Stranger in a Strange Land?"
Perhaps the world is safe from change and I am just crazy (or an ego-inflated fool who is blind to the fact.) I have news for you. *ALL* crazy people are visionaries. They see strange things which no one else can see. We in the western world despize our visionaries and our holy-men. They are embarassing, but much worse, they often tell us things which we simply cannot stand to hear. We declare them to be incompetent, and the visionaries themselves come to believe the same, which effectively silences their embarassing voices. If someone calls me crazy, I thank them for the compliment. Uh oh, I think I myself hear the men in white coats at the door! Better send this out before I realize that I'm just insane, that none of this could possibly be real, and that I need to get a bit more sleep and to stop damaging my credibibility in front of thousands of strangers on internet by talking excitedly about shamefully crazy stuff. And then delete it instead of sending it. Or NOT!

"The most exciting phrase to hear in science, the one that heralds new discoveries, is not 'Eureka!' (I found it!) but 'That's funny...' - Isaac Asimov

Who's going to be the first to test this? Not me, I'm on vacation and don't have access to any equipment. Only a fool would waste time testing such a crazy idea, so I'll probably have to volunteer to be that fool. Either it will work or it will not (or perhaps it is real, but as with "Cold Fusion," the first few experiments will be flawed and the phenomenon will not express itself until far more work is done.) If nobody makes any fantastic discoveries before I get back, I'll start messing with it. My "self" doesn't have any good reason to judge that this phenomeon is real. It's only my subconscious which is almost going off the deep end with excited yammering.
If somebody DOES take this seriously and start playing with it, and if there is nothing unexpected hidden here, then I'll just have to blame them for taking seriously the ravings of crackpots on the internet. And then pull a "Rosanne Rosannadanna" and say... "never mind."

UPDATE
ENERGY-SUCKING QED
(((((((((((((((((( ( (  (   (    (O)    )   )  ) ) )))))))))))))))))))
William J. Beaty                            SCIENCE HOBBYIST website
                             http://amasci.com

[BushWacker]

FreedomFuel,

The main similarities which I had refered and which I believe may possibly have in common with Steven Marks device has to do more with "Harmonic Resonance" than moving vortex electromagnetic fields. The reason that I believe this may be the case is that it at least appears to me that there are as I have stated many times before... "Piezo Stacks" involved in Mr. Marks design. There is an exausting amount of information out there which is available to anyone willing to learn about more than one area of science and/or engineering. To be a good engineer you will need to know more about physics and carry that knowledge over into electrical engineering. Please read up on Harmonic Resonance and perhaps also Phase Conjugation. In case you don't know how to find any information concerning these things which BTW have a great deal to do with electrical engineering, I have supplied a very few links for you to follow which should be at your level of understanding.

Good luck.

BushWacker
---------------------------
Concerning over-unity and ZPE related GIF file, uses Tesla's theory of resonant frequencies:
http://www.unexplainable.net/artman/publish/article_1756.shtml


Resonance:
http://www.umanitoba.ca/faculties/arts/linguistics/russell/138/sec4/resonanc.htm


Higher order harmonic resonance of electrons with electromagnetic propagation:
http://www.iop.org/EJ/abstract/0032-1028/13/11/004


Wave propagation perpendicular to the magnetic field:
http://farside.ph.utexas.edu/teaching/plasma/lectures/node86.html


Fundamental and Harmonics:
http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/waves/funhar.html
http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/oscdr2.html#c5


Studies of electron heating and multiply charged ion production in an electron cyclotron
resonance plasma:
http://www.iop.org/EJ/abstract/0032-1028/18/2/001

Understanding Harmonics:
http://www.powerdesigners.com/InfoWeb/design_center/Design_Tips/Harmonics/Harmonics.shtm


Power Factor Correction and Harmonic Resonance - A Volatile Mix:
http://www.ecmweb.com/powerquality/electric_power_factor_correction_3/

[Freedomfuel]

Bushwacker is right when he says that I have a lot to learn.? I am relatively new to this overunity business and I am still at the information collection stage.? I decided that I would not do what everyone else does in this field which is try to reproduce devices on the internet and end up going nowhere having spent thousands on devices which don?t do anything.? What needs to be done is to subject potential OU devices to a scientific analysis in order to evaluate their potential before spending time and money trying to develop them further.? The links that Bushwacker supplied don't really have much relevance for OU design.? You must remember that all the research into this subject commissioned by governments has been classified so you will have to dig deeper than standard engineering theory.

The idea that resonance is overunity is common in these forums because it suggests that you can get a big output for a small input but all that you are really doing is storing energy in the system from each successive input.? As to how resonance in these crystaline substances can tap into hypotheticalZPE is a mystery to me.? You don?t need to worry your head over that one because ZPE is also misinformation and it does not exist.

If you go to Patrick Kelly?s excellent free energy site you will find this abreviated version of Bearden?s patent for the MEG:

http://www.geocities.com/captpjk/part24.pdf

Bearden states that the purpose of special core materials in his device is merely to facilitate fast switching and he makes no reference to achieving resonance in these materials.? Here is what he has written:

?Recent advances in magnetic materials, which have recently been described by Robert C O?harley in Modern Magnetic Materials, Principles and Applications, (which) provides (information on) nanocrystaline magnetic alloys which are particularly well suited for rapid switching of magnetic flux.?

If this indeed all there is to the choice of this core material then I would expect to be able to build a proof of principle device with just a ferrite core and achieve less than optimum results due to greater hysterisis losses or whatever.

The quotation of Bill Beaty?s article about the mystery of torroidal coils merely demonstrates Beaty?s misunderstanding of the phenonmenon he describes and there really is no anomaly here.? He describes how a single turn of wire as secondary looped through a torroid coil fed with AC will induce a high current in the primary.? This is supposed to be impossible because the magnetic field is confined inside the core of the primary and there would be no changing magnetic flux inside the single turn secondary.? Clearly this is nonsense because there is a changing magnetic field in the secondary within an area in it?s centre defined by the area of the primary coil.? If one were to wind the secondary tightly over the primary it would obviously have a current induced in it when it is shorted but this is no different in principle from the large single turn secondary.?

The reason why the HOPE and MEG cannot be expected to extract energy from the environment depending on just the coil and core arrangement is that they confine the changing magnetic field to the core around which the coils are wound.? If you examine the animated giff for the Marks device here http://ntint.ntinternals.net/toroid_gen.gif you will see how the torroid is always divided in two so that it is really two coils whose north and south poles are opposed to each other and the resultant magnetic field extends into the space outside the total coil.? This is how the device acts as an antenna which boths transmits rotating magnetic waves into the ionosphere and receives an amplified signal of the same form.? Permanent magnets attached to the coil are still required and the regular pulsing of the magnets by the changing magnetic field in the coil does induce a kind of resonance in the magnets but this has nothing to do with electron magnetic resonance as it is usually understood since the frequencies involved are killocycles rather than gigacycles.? Using this insight the MEG could be redesigned as an effective transmitter/ receiver like the Marks device.

What Bushwacker has written about the Marks device requiring an input from a piezo stack is interesting and I would like some more info about this aspect of the device (if it is true).? This reminds me of Wooten and Mclain?s work on the Magnetic Resonance Amplifier which you can read about here:

http://www.sumeria.net/free/mraintro.html
http://www.sumeria.net/free/mraop.html
http://rexresearch.com/mra/2mra.htm

This involved a coil wound round a magnet core and fed AC in series via a piezo ceramic capacitor.? A power gain was observed at certain frequencies when the barium ferrite magnet resonated audibly at frequencies which are harmonics of the series resonant frequency.? In my opinion the significance of the titanium zircinate capacitor lies not in it?s claimed ability to release electrons when stressed because this would obvioulsy create a short circuit which is not what the manufacturers would want.? My hypothesis is that stresses within the capacitor produce a phenomenon like fracto-emission with the release of charge clusters.? These microscopic electronic vortices decay to form magnetic vortices which draw magnetic current from the ionosphere which is fed into the coil. It could be that a similar phenomenon is occuring within the core of Bushwackers?s HOPE device which might be the origin of any overunity phenomenon he has observed.

I have developed my ideas further as to how the Marks and similar devices take energy from the environment.? My hypothesis is that the sun ejects fragments of it's magnetic field from a large number of magnetic poles throughout it's surface as very rapid pulses.? You could say that the sun is blinking on and off.? The actual frequency of this pulsing would have to be reproduced by the OU device in order for maximum energy transfer in the ionosphere to occur.? In the case of the Marks device I seem to remember that the speed of rotation of the magnetic field generated was 6 kilocycles according to the video.

Seeing the Marks device video again I am further convinced of the authenticity of the device by the demonstration of a short circuit producing a flame like discharge.? This is a peculiar feature of magnetic current that would be difficult to fake and Marks would have no incentive to go to such extremes if he was a conman.? The average investor believes that free energy devices make electricity and he would not be any more convinced of the authenticity of a device if it demonstrated one of the features of magnetic current.

[BushWacker]

Freedomfuel,

     I fully understand your skeptisizm concerning any device or technology which is being said to be producing OU, and this is a very healthy approach to take in the process of investigating alternative energy technologies. I have always been somewhat of a skeptic myself however I am no longer new to this area of research and have seen and experienced enough to know that nearly anything that man can imagine can be done, and in many cases has already been done. As you have said yourself, there are a lot of technologies that are being witheld from public knowledge. Therefore it is often difficult to find the truth in a sea of humankind where deception happens to be a very common human trait. I personally do not recall making any claims that the HOPE generator was definately an OU device however I may have implied as such by the way in which I had worded a statement somewhere along the line. I do know several EE's who believe strongly that it is showing OU however that may be where I was misunderstood as making such claims myself. I want to be clear about this Freedomfuel. I am in 100% agreement with you that all such devices and technologies should be looked into and tested by highly qualified professionals before making any claims of OU. I have built permanent magnet motors similar to Howard Johnson's and had gone beyond the conventional dipole designs in my research. This is where I had run into deep doodoo with the U.S., military and there is a short story of what I went through at the time over the incident available in the December/January 2005 issue of NEXUS magazine. The title of the article I believe is "High Energy Monopole Materials Sequestered by U.S., Governement" or something similar to that effect. There are other reasons why these materials are so highly classified besides the free energy aspects involved although they are related to national security. The story is 100% factual and there are still many witnesses alive today who are willing to testify before the United States Congress if need be. Before my story was allowed to be published it was confirmed by witnesses who attested to the facts but I do not hold any negative opinions about anyone who looks upon such things with a healthy dose of skeptisizm because it is in fact the only wise approach to take on the path to finding truth. I also believe strongly that Steven Marks device is authentic and am highly interested in solving the riddles involved. I received notice on this previous Friday that the international patent office is preparing a patent/utility certificate in my name for the HOPE Generator. I will post the full documentation upon receiving the certificate. I have not made any direct claims that the HOPE was or is an OU device but only that it seems to be producing a great deal more energy than is being put in. This can be read by some to be a claim of OU however it is not. It is only the result of observation by myself and several others at this point. The device is currently being examined in the mannor which we both know that it needs to be so that there will be no further misunderstandings and so we can all find out one way or the other. I do wish that I had more time to write but I must be getting back to work and take care of more important matters for now. Thank you for your honesty and straight forward approach Freedomfuel. I have spent many thousands of dollars along the way also and I don't blame you for wanting to get to the truth. There are a lot of phony's and misinformed/misguided people making claims about all kinds of things and it can be extremely frustrating to wade through all of the BS just to find a small bit of truth. We are all in the dark about many things because of the veil of secrecy that has been in place for the last century or so. If you keep looking in the way that you are you will find out for yourself. However then you may have a hard time convincing the newbies that there really is a conspiracy.


Best Regards,

BushWacker