Heat Pump / Refrigeration. Can same overunity concept apply to Eletronics???

[picowatt]

That "laughing" did not mean you or anyone else here, its just a historical fact. To be honest watching some videos about the early tries to fly still makes us laugh today 

Efficiency is a point of view. If you take a lightbulb its just 5% efficient and has 95% losses. But consider it a heater its 95% efficient.
A heat pump sure has losses, but these losses are set free as heat to almost 100%. so are they really losses if the purpose of the pump is to produce heat?
It really just depends on how you look at it.

A gasoline IC engine would have an incredible "COP" if its heat source did not have to be factored in...

PW

[LibreEnergia]

Mark,

the prototype is what I'm working on. This will sure take time and money and I sure will need help to build it.
But so far nobody was able to tell me a reason why this should not work and in fact its not possible to destroy energy so it has to be somewhere after being extracted from the environment. I've seen a lot of discussion here on e.g. permanent magnet motors but have never seen one running or have read or heard any explaination on how it should work. But I do respect people trying to achieve what I think is not possible. I try to keep my mind open to any idea and won't say something IS impossible just because I think it is.
You are right, you don't have to proof me wrong, but at least I have an explanation where the energy comes from.
I just ask to consider my idea like any other in this forum and if anyone has a reason why it can not work and can explain where the energy is lost, I will stop all efforts to build that generator.
So please read the documents on my page before you say it can't work.

Regards
Red

I notice the patent application make no claim of 'over-unity' operation. It will work of course as long as the SUPPLY of heat energy is maintained and is able to exhaust to a reservoir at a lower temperature than the inlet. As such you have a heat engine where the efficiency is determined by the difference  in temperature between the hot and cold reservoirs.

However, the dream of using this to run just on ambient energy is a pipe dream. The 2nd Law of thermodynamics precludes being able to create an maintaining a temperature differential without requiring external energy input.  At best your mechanism could serve to increase the efficiency of the heat engine by cooling the exhaust, much like an intercooler does.

[DaS Energy]

Hello Larsth,
"In mechanical engineering your typical quality heat pump / refrigeration unit is over unity in respect to the physical work put in.|'
Carbon - CO2 is a natural refrigerant. You be on the ball, rid your work of the friction found in solid piston devices, and go turbine.
Absorption fridge boiler heats Refrigerant to high head pressure blocked by a plate with tiny hole. Heat is energy and so much energy is taken getting through the tiny hole the Refrigerant comes out the other side cold.
A turbine runner will obtain momentum by hot gas force, it will allow that gas to pass into a cooling chamber where the gas again becomes liquid, it will convey liquid into a boiler.
Any liquid may be used however a personal preference is for Carbon-CO2 and its super high pressure forces for such little heat, commencing upward from -40*Celsius.
Peter

[Low-Q]

First of all. Heat pumps are not over unity machines. They move heat from one source to another. It's like shuffeling coal (Which contains lots of stored energy) from one place and into an oven.


If you try to run a stirling engine with a heat pump, the engine will transport cold air into the hot reservoir of the heat pump. The heat pump can transfer heat from a hot reservoir into a cold reservoir, and not from a cold reservoir to another cold reservoir.
If you want to make a working heat pump/stirling engine, you need a third reservoir that is insolated from the already cold and hot reservoir. The heat pump and the stirling engine must have one common cold reservoir, but have separate hot reservoirs.


The COP of a heat pump is often misunderstood. If it has a COP of 5, it means the pump can TRANSPORT 5 parts of energy with 1 part of energy input. It does not PRODUCE 5 parts of energy from 1 part of energy input. An ideal heat pump would have a COP of infinity, because transporting energy from one source to another does in fact not require energy at all. However, a heat pump suffer from losses because the pump must fight against a pressure difference between the cold and the hot radiator. The pump must compress the hot working fluid so it can deliver heat indoor. As the liquid working fluid expands it releases its heat energy and gets very cold. This gas will now be warmed up by the outdoor air or the ground. It will pick up heat only if the cold gas is colder than the outdoor air or ground.


So if you connect a stirling engine to a heat pump, the net result will be that the energy input continue to heat up both reservoirs, and the heat pump "stalls". If you disconnect the input energy, both reservoirs will gradually cool down so both heat pump and stirling engine finally stops.


Vidar

[RedEagle]

I notice the patent application make no claim of 'over-unity' operation. It will work of course as long as the SUPPLY of heat energy is maintained and is able to exhaust to a reservoir at a lower temperature than the inlet. As such you have a heat engine where the efficiency is determined by the difference  in temperature between the hot and cold reservoirs.

However, the dream of using this to run just on ambient energy is a pipe dream. The 2nd Law of thermodynamics precludes being able to create an maintaining a temperature differential without requiring external energy input.  At best your mechanism could serve to increase the efficiency of the heat engine by cooling the exhaust, much like an intercooler does.

You're right, I don't claim overunity and thus of course need constant energy supply. In a closed room the engine could not run eternally.
Also the generator will need energy to get the process started, actually internally it constantly needs energy to keep the temperature difference.
I just claim, that the amount of energy it produces is higher than what it needs to keep running.
So neither the 1st nor the 2nd law of thermodynamics is violated.
Every single process in the generator is known and can be calculated.
Considering the losses it also would not work without the feedback, but that is one claim of my patent.