DEBATE THREAD

[Bessler007]

If you were 1,000 years old you would still be wise beyond your years.

If I had to deal with Omni at a personal level it would be me, him, security and a cardboard box.  I'd just smile and agree with everything as I helped him clean out his desk.


Bessler007

I have been trying to follow this, and I sort of see where Omnibus is going, but when I try to get my head around it, it starts to hurt.  Low-Q's explanations make more sense.  But I think I can sum this up:

1.  You will never convince Omnibus he is wrong.  Do not even try. 

. . .

[hansvonlieven]

there mustn't be any existing energy source driving the device to claim that device is violating CoE. The energy driving the device must come out of no source.

Precisely, and THAT cannot be done!

Ex nihilo nihil fit. Quod erat demonstrandum!

[Omnibus]

there mustn't be any existing energy source driving the device to claim that device is violating CoE. The energy driving the device must come out of no source.

Precisely, and THAT cannot be done!

Ex nihilo nihil fit. Quod erat demonstrandum!

On the contrary, that's the requirement Helmholtz puts for CoE to be violated and precisely that can be done, as demonstrated by SMOT. You have to learn more so that one day somehow you could understand that Latin sentences don't qualify as arguments in physics.

[hansvonlieven]

But they do, seeing that they express the fundamentals of physics and CoE

out of nothing comes nothing is the most fundamental axiom of physics, everything else follows from there. It is also the most fundamental axiom in mathematics.

Hans von Lieven

[Omnibus]

But they do, seeing that they express the fundamentals of physics and CoE

out of nothing comes nothing is the most fundamental axiom of physics, everything else follows from there. It is also the most fundamental axiom in mathematics.

Hans von Lieven

No, they don't. It's a wishful thinking to perceive that physical phenomena will go away by the spell of uttering Latin phrases. Now we know that fundamentals of physics reject CoE as a general principle and that's not proven by muttering Latin spell but is proven by experiment. As I explained, energy is the expression of motion and motion comes as a result of proper superposition of force fields. Therefore, the simplistic understanding that 'out of nothing comes nothing' isn't applicable here because forces aren't 'nothing', motion isn't 'nothing', the only 'nothing' is a pre-existing source of energy. Turns out conditions can be found whereby despite the lack of pre-existing energy source, only due to properly superimposed, assisting each other fields, motion of a body at a certain distance can be achieved, that is, work can be done without expenditure of energy of any kind which is equivalent to energy out of nothing (out of no source).