Thane Heins Perepiteia.

[OUman]

NICE TRY DICKWEED - BUT WRONG BECAUSE WE GENERALLY OPERATE BEYOND THE MOTOR'S PULL OUT POINT - WHICH WOULD HAVE SERVED US ALL WELL IF YOUR POP'S WOULD HAVE KNOWN ABOUT THIS CONCEPT MANY YEARS AGO.

Thane

Everything you have posted so far indicates that you are running the motor w-a-a-y BELOW the pull-out point. In other words, way below the rated rpm of the motor. Are you now saying that is not so?

[aether22]

Quote
The second point is that HV coils might have 1/100th or 1/1,000th the current but they have 100 or 1,000 more turns than their high current cousins and so their ampere turns is the same and they create an identicle magnetic field.

THIS IS NOT TRUE EITHER - CURRENT INDUCED IN A COIL IS INVERSELY PROPORTIONAL TO ITS RESISTANCE (IMPEDENCE).

MAGNETOMOTIVE FORCE = N x I

AS THE NUMBER OF TURNS INCREASES BEYOND THE COILS Q AND THE WIRE GAUGE IS REDUCED THE IMPEDENCE (WIRE RESISTANCE + REACTANCE) ALSO INCREASES - CURRENT DROPS AS DOES THE COILS MMFs.

Thane

Let's take 2 coils.
Coil A is 5,000 turns, Coil B is 10,000 turns, both take up the same space which means that coil B's wires must have half the cross sectional area of A's.
It also means B will have 4 times the ohmic resistance, half due to the wire being twice as long and half as fat.
B will also have 4 times the inductance.
B will have double the voltage induced in it.

And B will require only half the current of A to create an equally strong magnetic field since it has twice as many turns.

When used in a generator A and B will both be pulling and sinking the same energy.
The only thing that stops a coil from outputting more current is the ability of it's MMF to counteract the coils experience of the rotors MMF's and so if it was not creating an equally strong MMF then there would be more currrent to pull.

go here:
http://www.falstad.com/circuit/

Make 2 circuits to simulate a shorted generator coil. (A and B)

Each circuit needs an AC 2 terminal voltage source to take place of the induction. (give B double the voltage since double the turns induces double the voltage)
Then give each circuit an inductor, give B one that is 4 times larger.
Then complete each circuit by adding a resistor, make B's 4 times larger since we have established it will have 4 times the resistance.
We have now created a high current coil and a high voltage coil analogue complete with the induced voltage, the inductance and resistance.

Then right click the resistors and click 'view in scope'
and look at only the current, you will see that B has (within a rounding error) half the current of A.
But it only needs half the current to create an equivalent magnetic field as A.

Energy and MMF's are the same in HC or HV coils.

[CRANKYpants]

Are you now saying that is not so?OUmon

NO I AM SAYING THAT YOU ARE A DICK - FOR WASTING YOUR TALENTS AND INTELLIGENCE PLAYING THE FOOL.

Thane

[CRANKYpants]

go here:
http://www.falstad.com/circuit/
Make 2 circuits to simulate a shorted generator coil. (A and B)

YOU CAN TELL ME "WHERE TO GO" IF YOU LIKE BUT THIS IS STILL BULL!

YOU TAKE A COIL OF WIRE PUT A FIXED VOLTAGE AND CURRENT INTO IT - MEASURE THE INDUCED MAGNETIC FIELD.

NOW ADD TURNS - EVENTUALLY THE COIL'S INDUCED MAGNETIC STRENGTH FIELD WILL PEAK.

NOW KEEP ADDING TURNS BEYOND THE PEAK AND THE MAGNETIC FIELD STRENGTH WILL FALL AWAY TOWARDS ZERO.

Thane

[aether22]

YOU CAN TELL ME "WHERE TO GO" IF YOU LIKE BUT THIS IS STILL BULL!

YOU TAKE A COIL OF WIRE PUT A FIXED VOLTAGE AND CURRENT INTO IT - MEASURE THE INDUCED MAGNETIC FIELD.

NOW ADD TURNS - EVENTUALLY THE COIL'S INDUCED MAGNETIC STRENGTH FIELD WILL PEAK.

Yes, as an Electromagnet that is very true.
As a generator coil that is totally untrue provided that all of the coil is inside of the induction field.
Because while each turn increases the coils self induction each turn also increases the coils pickup of the rotor field and the to cancel out.

You can't just ignore the math behind it because it doesn't agree with what you thought.
But there is no need to argue because this is a very good thing also, you don't have to have coils that increase rpm and other coils that output usefully, you can have coils that do both.

NOW KEEP ADDING TURNS BEYOND THE PEAK AND THE MAGNETIC FIELD STRENGTH WILL FALL AWAY TOWARDS ZERO.

What you are missing is that a properly constructed generator coil or transformer secondary has no effective inductance when it comes to responding to the induced voltage, a single turn or a million makes no difference since as one side of the equasion changes (self induction) so does the other (induction from the rotor or primary).

The only exception is with turns that are outside of the influence of the inducing field.


To put it another way, the rotor creates an EMF.
With a short circuit type situation the generator coil will push more current through if it can.
The only thing stopping it is if the coil is effectively canceling (or mostly) the field from the primary. (from the generating coils point of view, but we have been over that)
If the generating coil's EMF/MMF was not precisely opposite and equal then you could pull unlimited power (amps) since the generating coil would not be able to weaken the rotors emf field.
The fact that you can't pull more power is an indication that the rotors field has been nicely countered.

You can even test this if you do not believe me, put a test coil near/under/on top of the HV shorted coil, test it's OC voltage and then short the HV coil and keep reading it's voltage, you will find that from the coils perspective the MMF/EMF from the rotor has been heavily weakened, that's because the HV coil produces and equal and opposite field.