Thane Heins Perepiteia.

[jacksatan]

BTW - It does not help you case to say in one breath that he has both evidenced a more efficient motor, and that he cannot evidence it due to inherent inefficiencies in his setup...

It is not my fault you can not grasp a simple sentence.
He can evidence it just fine and has, but only if you count the losses.
If you count only the output of the coils you will have a harder time because the losses are likely larger.

These losses are required because otherwise it would be going at full speed before shorting and there would be nothing to demo.

Is it really that hard to understand that the losses the slowed the generator down in demo 1 are the same losses that are present in demo 2 only in demo 2 they must be greater due to the higher speed.

And therefore the only answer is the motor is now more efficient.

IF that is not the case then the only other vaguely sane way is to assume that by having an all magnetic connection to the motor, the generator became hugely more efficient (due to receiving what? from various motor types) which would make it the reverse but really just as interesting a claim. (that is however less likely as it requires many different motor types to create a mysterious energy to travel through the shaft which effects only this one type of generator since it is known not to happen normally when a motor and gen are connected together)

The only way to test the idea you are proposing is to measure the torque between the motor and generator, if it shows the torque to be greater when at an identical speed (and current) with Thanes gen than with a mechanical load that means the motor is outputting more energy for a certain speed/current.

Comparing the mechanical to the electrical output of Thanes coils is unfair since in reality the weaker the electric current the more pronounced the effect (since Lenz Law is holding up in reality) and Thane has designed it to show off the effect not the electrical output.

I am quite done explaining to anyone why a mechanical load compared to the electrical output is a bad idea.

One more try - keep in mind we are on the same side... let's try this one point at a time - if the only thing stopping an equal mechanical demonstration is that the motor will be running at "full speed", why not put a mechanical load on the motor to slow it down? Then when you attach the magnets you will either see the motor output increase or decrease? In order to allow for the mechanical load to visably slow down the motor you may need to tie a five pound weight to the end of the string winder, but it's the same principle...

[vince]

Thane;

I'm not sure if I have anything here or not!  I tried starting the motor with all the coils open and my meter on one coil to show output. I reduced the speed via  the control to the minimum speed that it would run at and let it stabilize. I then started shorting coils 1 at a time and by the third coil it stopped.  So, I disconnected all the coils again and started the motor, this time I gave it about 1/4 to 1/3 turn on the speed control.  I don't have a tach so my only indication of speed is the output at the coil. This time as I started to hook up the coils and it did not slow down but kept on running although I don't know if it is speeding up. It sounds like the same speed and the output coil still puts out the same as when it was unloaded.  The strange thing is that once it stabilizes at its own speed I can dial back the control to minimum setting and maintain the speed and output at the coil.  If I start the motor with all coils open and try to run it at minimum speed setting it barely turns if not stops.  It seems that once a certain speed is attained you can load the output coils, back off the controller and still maintain output and speed. I need to find a way to measure RPM and also to test some larger coils with laminated cores.  The small coils that I have now have solid cores and maybe Laminations will enhance the effect.  I can certainly see how you may have become motivated when you discovered this.

Also when the motor became fully loaded at the lowest speed setting it was drawing about .1. I know this is not much but a loaded motors should draw more not less.

Regards
Vince

[polarbreeze]

PolarBreeze ,just for clarity what do you mean by dreaming ,Chet

Chet, what I mean by dreaming is that it is a fantasy to expect to put 100W in and to get >100W out. And it does a disservice to Thane's idea for people to be associating it with that idea. It's quite possible that Thane has invented a way to greatly improve the efficiency of electric motors. It would be a great shame for that invention never to see the light of day because its credibility is shot by linking it to the idea of perpetual motion.

[polarbreeze]

...Now I am to either assume that you are an idiot, or a c#^t.

...or you are playing some word game in some lame (and IMO failed) attempt at one oneupmanship...

...You are utterly missing the point, you have no interest in physics, all you want to do is find the most impractical test to show the device does not work.

...I'd rather not waste my time replying to this nonsense, I don't think you want to get the point of this.

I was hoping that we're having an objective discussion about how to prove that this device works and I'm kind of shocked at your reaction so I'm sorry if something I've said has offended you. Perhaps we have a different concept of what "prove that the device works" means. Here's my point of view on that: the proposition being made is that adding this device to an electric motor will make the motor more efficient. Do we agree that's the proposition - if not, please describe to me what you consider to be the proposition. Then maybe we can get on the same page.

[aether22]

Satan, not sure we are on the same side
Again I will not discuss this mechanical testing idea with anyone, I have said I doubt it will work, pointed out that a failure of it to work proves nothing (and is not required for proof of the effect) and explained how to carry the test out successfully (which did not interest any arguing for it), I do not believe any or the majority of those arguing for it to be genuine or intelligent or interested in overunity or even a performance enhancement.  THE END

-------------------------

Thane , I have been looking for any way I can preform the experiment before/without getting the disk from you, and I may have found one. (Incidentally if 'they' are being genuine (they aren't, considering OU 'dreaming' on an OU forum is clearly skeptic) then it would make polar et al happy.)

I have a synchronous motor, it's either a hp or close to it, it has a pully on which was mounted an aluminum disk, I have chosen not to use the Aluminum disk but mount my steel disk on it, but in isolation of any steel parts (the pully is perfect, no wobble and my steel disk on it has no wobble), and have a bolt protruding from the center to carry the flux to the device under test, initially a bench grinder motor under a mechanical load. (it has no mechanical connection to the disk of course)

Now I'm not saying you should delay in sending the disk as this setup may not work, but you could help me by running a simple test, should be pretty easy.

Take a bench grinder motor, other induction motor (or even your drill if you stick it on your variac) and apply a mechanical load, even your hand + glove, and place either next to (or lightly touching) the free end of the axle of the wheel side, or on the back of the motor end.

See if the 'back'emf'/aether gets into and increases the torque. (if not my experiment won't work)

It would seem very very unlikely that you need the motor physically connected to/rotating the disk for it to effect the motor, but it would be very interesting to prove as it opens up the possibility of using a normal motor with or without a normal generator and increasing it's output with possibly a solid state low power back-emf/aether generator coil slipped over the shaft or something.

I hope to have this completed some time late tomorrow, the main time waster will be in winding and mounting the coils as well as trying to find core.