Thane Heins Perepiteia.

[Groundloop]

@All,

Just want to say that tests done on MY pulse motor gives the oposite result as stated by DMBoss!

When I run my rotor and put a unshorted (open) coil (with a ferrite core) up to the spinning rotor then
the RPM stays almost the same. When I short the coil and put it up to the rotor the RPM is going DOWN!
A shorted coil is a break for the rotor.

Groundloop.

Well Groundloop:

You are comparing apples to oranges!  Exactly my point in chiding people posting results without doing their homework!

Ferrite cores, have exceptionally small core loss per pound of material and are virtually non-conductive so there is almost no eddy current loss.  And that's why we can use ferrites for extremely high frequencies, and cannot use steel above 400 Hz!

it's because steel, has very high core loss and so can't be used at higher freqs.  Not only is your test irrelevant to the issue at hand, i.e. Heins used bulk steel blocks as cores and you used ferrite (one has 15 watts per pound core loss at 60 Hz and the other has a few tens of milliwatts per pound at 60 Hz), But you fail to grasp energy/power balances!

Just because the rotor speed falls does not tell you anything about what and where power is going!  If you had a few turns of heavy wire on that shorted coil with ferrite as core - that would make a LOT of current and then the I'2R of that coil could be 20 watts!  This by itself with slow the rotor down, irrespective of a core loss change.  So you could have really large coil heating output placing a load torque on the rotor in excess of the miniscule core loss change of your ferrite core.

To make your blanket statement with authority, you'd have to measure torque, speed, True Power, and Rms voltage and current and crunch some numbers.  You'd also have to know the rotating mass friction at particular speeds being measured too, along with coil's DC resistance.

If however you had a gazillion turns of really fine wire as it appears Heins has, and shorted them, a miniscule current will flow and only a few tens of milliwatts will be dissipated by the coil heating, and the very large core loss change will be evident in rotor increase in speed!

To spell it out for you:

Your improper comparison using ferrite core, has a teensy core loss reduction upon shorting the coils, and this core loss reduction in drag, is less than the increase in drag due to the I^2R output of the coil heat. (yours is teensy because a 90% reduction in a core loss that starts at only 100milliwatts is teensy by comparison to a 90% reduction in steel core loss that starts at 5 or 50 watts!)

Heins' system has solid iron or steel bars as core, with a huge core loss value.  he also used a LOT of really fine wire to wind his coils - he shows one having 175 ohms DC resistance!  This miniscule current will flow to completely take the B in the core down to near zero as evidenced by the near zero voltage induction value.  So say he has 50mA flowing - into 175 ohms - that is then 437 milliwatts of coil heat adding drag to the rotor.  But he obviously has anywhere from 50 to 300 watts of drag in his system at no load, a large percentage of that being core loss - so if core loss were even a mere 5 watts no load, and it dropped to 1 watts when coils are shorted, the rotor will speed up because this lessened drag of 4 watts, is 10x higher than the increased drag from coil heating of 437mwatts!

Sorry your argument is nonsense.

DMBoss

@

DMBoss,

I never said you where wrong. All I said is that MY pulse motor slowed down when you load it. This was to show people that this is the normal thing for a motor to do. So it is easy to be fooled by lossy cores.

OK?

Groundloop.

[RunningBare]

I had a closer look at the original MPEG movies and it looks like
he is not using solid iron cores but laminated iron cores,
so the eddy current losses should be small.

I agree, part 4 definitely shows laminated cores.

[magnetoelastic]

Even with laminated core materials, the hysteresis braking effect will occur if he is using carbon steel for the laminations.

[FredWalter]

He has a demonstration at the Ottawa University Monday next week which he invited me and another member from this forum to attend.

Please see if you can borrow a digital camera that will let you take movies, and post anything that you take here.

Thane wants to share any of his finding with all, so nothing is hidden.

The copy of his patent application on the Canadian Patent website is incomplete (it is missing 2 pages).

Please ask him for a copy of his patent application, so it can be posted here, so people can try to reproduce his results.

[Jdo300]

I don't know if this would even be relevant to the current discussion but you may want to check out this patent, "Method and Apparatus for Increasing Energy." In it, they talk about adding a DC bias winding to the rotor in an AC motor to increase the output. Might be worth a look:

http://www.google.com/patents/pdf/METHOD_AND_APPARATUS_FOR_INCREASING_ELEC.pdf?id=lYA3AAAAEBAJ&output=pdf&sig=nhE0OQ-Zg7JP66IqJR_cIWTN8NI

God Bless,
Jason O