Thane Heins Perepiteia.

[jacksatan]

LUC  Nice video  Thanx for  keeping us in the loop    Jack  please take no offence   

None taken - I was just perplexed... you had me reading and rereading that posting trying to figure out if I mis read something...

[polarbreeze]

...

Link: http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=BJqnfR3B4oc

The results of this video are posted here: http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=4047.msg81689.html#msg81689
...

Luc

Hi Luc. Watched the video, very interesting. How many turns on the primary and how many total turns on the secondary in each test?

[gyulasun]

...

Link: http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=BJqnfR3B4oc

The results of this video are posted here: http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=4047.msg81689.html#msg81689
...

Luc

Hi Luc. Watched the video, very interesting. How many turns on the primary and how many total turns on the secondary in each test?

Hi Polarbreeze,

You can find lots of data on the toroidal transformers, except the primary coil.  See this earlier post here:
http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,4047.msg77494.html#msg77494  and
http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,4047.msg77560.html#msg77560

Because Thane wrote earlier that the core in the primary coil is made of much lower permeability than the toroid core (to get less back emf effect from the secondary etc.)  I suspect the primary coil's self inductance is also a low value and the dominant primary current is determined by its windings copper resistance rather than its inductive reactance. If this is so, than the current flowing in the primary coil is mainly used for heating the wire and not for mainly magnetizing the core. They supply the primary coil with 2V 60Hz AC and the current is 2A: if I assume 0.5 Ohm DC copper resistance for their primary coil, the loss is 2A*2A*0.5Ohm=2W  wasted for heat from their 4W input power!   Of course I do not know their exact coil DC resistance, I assumed a resonable value.   And I am concerned also by core saturation too as I wrote yesterday (Reply #861).  I hope they are aware of all these.

rgds,  Gyula

[polarbreeze]

Hi Polarbreeze,

You can find lots of data on the toroidal transformers, except the primary coil.  See this earlier post here:
http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,4047.msg77494.html#msg77494  and
http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,4047.msg77560.html#msg77560

Because Thane wrote earlier that the core in the primary coil is made of much lower permeability than the toroid core (to get less back emf effect from the secondary etc.)  I suspect the primary coil's self inductance is also a low value and the dominant primary current is determined by its windings copper resistance rather than its inductive reactance. If this is so, than the current flowing in the primary coil is mainly used for heating the wire and not for mainly magnetizing the core. They supply the primary coil with 2V 60Hz AC and the current is 2A: if I assume 0.5 Ohm DC copper resistance for their primary coil, the loss is 2A*2A*0.5Ohm=2W  wasted for heat from their 4W input power!   Of course I do not know their exact coil DC resistance, I assumed a resonable value.   And I am concerned also by core saturation too as I wrote yesterday (Reply #861).  I hope they are aware of all these.

rgds,  Gyula

Hi, Gyula, thanks for that. I was hoping to get them simply to list all the parameters of the coils in one place so that there's no chance of misunderstanding. But I can get the secondary turns count and the resistances from those other postings so that's part of it. There seems to be no information, though, about the following, unless I'm missing it? Any ideas?

- Self inductance of each of the secondaries
- Number of turns on the primary
- Resistance of the primary
- Self inductance of the primary
- Magnetizing reactance (Xm)
- Core loss equivalent resistance (Rc)
- Source impedance (output resistance and reactance of the variac)

These parameters are easily measured in the experimental setup and they are absolutely necessary in order to model what's going on.

If, as you say, they're driving the core into saturation, then this is going to mess it up somewhat but the first step, I think, is to make sure the base operation of the transformer (when not saturated) is properly understood and modeled. Only then can we quantify what's going on that is different from conventional expected operation - what do you think?

[gyulasun]

Hi Polarbreeze,

I cannot recall any specific data given by them that would serve as answers to your list of parameters.

May I notice for you though that there is no any chance in any circuit simulator on market to get overunity operation when you simulate a circuit of any kind (be it a passive transformer or an active device circuit) because the designers of such softwares simply used conventional way of approaches/calculations that is taught in universities for ages,  unless the circuit to be simulated does readily operate as an overunity device.
If the developers of such softwares happen to find extra output in certain cases they will do their best to teach the software NOT to give out such results, for surely it must be a bug... this is their way of thinking I guess.

In case of this toroidal transformer setup the catch is certainly the possibility of less drag back on the primary from the load on the secondary, partly because of the airgaps between the two cores and partly because of the big difference in the two permeabilities of the two cores.  The big question is if these two catches can indeed give more output than input power in a clearly measurable and repeatable way? I wish they could!

rgds,  Gyula