Tri-Force Magnets - Finally shown to be OU?

[Omnibus]

@smOky2,

I have a bad feeling that you don't make a distinction between force and energy. This is the sentence that gives me that feeling:

also was given that points A and B are both higher than the field of magnetic influence.

That's one of the most common mistakes around. You think you make this distinction but you actually don't.

the magnetic field decreases with distance - to a point after which its effect is so small that is become negligible. THIS IS THE POINT where the influence field ends. - a point further out than this is not affected by the magnetic influence.

Can you explain how this is a mistake?

This is an obvious mistake. The fact that at a certain distance from the magnet the force of attraction is already intangible doesn't mean in any way that the magnetic potential energy at that point is zero. You don't understand this and now I know where your problem is.

[sm0ky2]

a "bad feeling"?? have you even examined this phenomena? other than speculation from videos and other peoples text? dont jump to conclusions with me. i'll spell it out for you if you need that, but you have stated in the past that you are a scientist, and thus should be adequately equipped to perform these calculations yourself.  BUT - since you want to be argmentative, and attempt to steer people away from what may be the most promising device in this Forum -- I'll make it clear,cut and dry. Fasten your safety belts and make sure your tray tables are in their upright position.

The Force of the repulsion zone is given as a vector acceleration on the mass of the roller in the direction of the Ramp angle (from a prepositioned horizontal plane) which is inversly proportional to the distance squared.
outwardly from the "null zone" between repulsion and transition, through the distance of the repulsion field (and subsequent time) this equates to a velocity/momentum imparted onto the roller.
Which equates to the "energy" involved in crossing into the repulsion field.

Subsequently this Energy value can be found using another well known FORCE, with a verticle aceleration. The cummulative force interacting between the two fields is the cross product of the two, using the angle of the ramp and 90 degrees.

angle the ramp to the limits of the repulsion field, such that the roller is repulsed to the outer edge of the magnetic field, and the ramp is at the maximum height while still maintaining repulsion to that field limit. The gate angle must match the ramp angle. This is a given, but some people need this explained.   The roller should also be ejected out the top of the gates when you push it into the repulsion field to ensure proper gate function before the experiment can begin.
Measure the verticle height of the roller at this point of maximum repulsion on the ramp, prior to gate entry.  [insert Pythagoras here].

The Energy value of this field is thus represented by the equivalent energy value of the gravitational field: E = mgh , 
whereas in the magnetic field E = -mBd - where d is the length of the ramp, and B is the vector force of the opposing magnetic fields at the ramp angle.
At this angle the magnetic field is resisting the gravitational field completely, as the outer "edge" of the field is at the same radial- distance as it was when placed horizontally.

the force between the 2 magnets is = (1.256 x 10-6 A/m^2)(m1)(m2) / 4(Pi) (d)^2 at the vector angle of the ramp.
                        -------  where m1 & m2 are the strengths of the two di-poles in A/m and d is the distance of the ramp.
E = E in both cases, and thus can be estimated using the gravitational potential at the height of maximum repulsion.


When you change the angle of the ramp you change the vector force interaction between the magnetic and gravitational fields, and thus the cumulative force vector between them must be recalculated. Also,to note that at ANY angle other than this angle, the "resting point" of the roller will be inside the magnetic field.
Regardless of the angle, the maxumim repulsion of the magnetic field remains along the radial arc.
There is still magnetic potential beyond this point, this is true. It extends infinitely, decreasing in strength with distance. However this does not affect the mass of the roller at great distances, even in the horizontal plane.

This is verified by placing a barrier slightly outside this boundary point -
put the roller at a starting point further up the ramp at a distance and time the roller with and without the magnetic field.  Gravitational acceleration remains constant at this point.



The force involved in entering through the repulsion zone at the front of the gate is countered by a function of the mass of the roller, moving at a given velocity down the ramp (momentum), OR by increasing the ramp angle enough that the vector force of the gravitational field becomes dominant and forces the roller into the field.  (we want to use the first option for this experiment)


Maintaining the angle of maximum repulsion from the initial measurements, place the roller high enough that the momentum from the gravitational field causes the roller to enter into the gate and pass through to the other side.  The roller recieves momentum from the gravitational field, loses some to the repulsion field, gains an unknown value from the transitional field,loses some to friction/ect,  and gains back exactly what it lost to repulsion in the form of repulsion at the gate exit. Ending up with a measurable quantity of excess Gravitational Potential Energy represented
as   E(transitional) = m*h[b-a]*g   where m is the mass of the roller w/ balls, b-a is the difference between the starting and end points, and g is the gravitational constant.

We have now reached maximum altitude, you are free to move about the cabin.

[Omnibus]

There is still magnetic potential beyond this point, this is true. It extends infinitely, decreasing in strength with distance.

That's incorrect. Like I said, you're confusing force with energy.

[Tinker]

CLaNZeR
You have done a great thing

You folks that did the SMOT like me  remember that it worked linear but not in An Arc THE TRI GATE AND THE DUAL GATE DOES.

I tested it last night.

Go vertical

The sticky point on the rear end has been solved with the configuration of the magnets the but the sticky point on the entrance is still an issue.

The sticky point at the entrance still exists BUT if you enter the magnet array beyond the end where the sticky point exists NO WORRIES. but this i think is best achieved with a vertical wheel.

The sticky point is no longer an issue it is litterally behind us.

I Just spent 5 hours cutting out a circular wheel with my DREMEL tool
(battery charge).

Feel Free to accept or reject this information, I will post more when I know more.

Tinker


 

[Omnibus]

@Tinker,

That the initial sticky spot isn't an issue any more sounds very encouraging but give us more details. Maybe you can post something which @CLaNZeR may try when he does his experiments this weekend. That particular nasty sticky spot which is the central problem in every known attempt to build a magnetic motor is showing its ugly head here as well, as we see in his video. So far there hasn't been anything else stalling the construction of a working pmm but that very sticky spot. How could you solve the problem?