Single AA battery to light WHITE LED for long-long time

[zon]

Hi Guyla

You're right about put capacitor 1000 uF pararel with battery.
Now i change the schematic and made revision to 08 (see attachment).
I've got email from my friend with attachment TEP (time energy pump) his version for 12V lead acid battery, 2 x TIP3055 and put C1,C2,C3 with 100nf, 100nf, 1000uF.
C1, C2, C3 must match with frekuensi oscilation.
I can't post his diagram without get permit from him.
What will i do only learn his concept and combining with my circuit design.
I can't find on my stock for 100nf, 100nf and 1000uf
I try with 150 nf, 150nf, 4700 uf
Now, with my circuit design , i got battery drain only 0.001 volt  every hours, without reducing brightness LED (output).
Thanks GOD

If we can find matching between frequency oscilation with c1,c2,c3, the battery will not drain anymore maybe only little bit.  It will  proof the led/output not related again with source/battery.

Unfortunally, i don't have the right tools to countinue my eksperiment, we must now exactly of freqeuncy oscilation and try with some combination of c1,c2,c3 . I think try with 100nf,100nf,1000uf and other 150nf,150nf,1500uf etc and some trial freqeuncy oscilation. After that make new equatation/formula relation between frequency oscilation and c1,c2,c3. Please share on this thread after u get result.


zon

[zon]

I've tried your modification and my result is the same/similar to my earlier circuit (groundloop design).

@sanmank

Please allow your circuit running minimum 10 hours, before you make measurement.
Because the toroid will energized for that time.

zon

[gyulasun]

Hi Zon,

Re on your C1, C2 and C3 in your revision 08.

I understand the role of C1 as to make your 3rd coil resonant at the oscillator frequency so the value of C1 should be chosen by trial, you may wish to obtain some 10nF, 22nF,  56nF and 100nF capacitors and putting them in parallel gradually at C1 to see if the LED brightness increases or decreases (approaching the oscillator frequency by the self-resonant frequency of your 3rd coil+C1 should make the LED brighter and brighter and at the same time the current consumption from the battery less and less).

The role of C2 and C3 as I understand it is not making resonance but making the battery AC impedance the smallest possible on the ocsillator's frequency.  And high value electrolytic capacitors in general are poor performers at your 20-150kHz frequency range because their series equivalent resistances increases with the frequency. To compensate this, the rule of thumb is to connect smaller value capacitors in parallel with them which are not electrolytic types and they will have much better higher frequency performance.  So your C3 will work well from some Hertz up to some kHz as an AC shunt for the battery and your C2 will take over this role from some kHz to some tens of kHz frequency (a better selection were using a 470nF and 47 or 56nF extra capacitor also in parallel with the battery to get a really wide band AC shunt across the battery).

I apologize for saying this: I personally do not think your circuit you have shown is overunity, I would say only a highly efficient oscillator to convert battery energy into light energy (though the LEDs are still not approach your oscillator circuit efficiency).  A few years ago I built joule thief like oscillator circuits with germanium transistors and diodes to minimize active devices inherent voltage drops. It is true then I did not have your 3rd coil added to regain some energy from the input energy but even so I do not think to reach over unity.  Perhaps when you get permission from your friend to show here a different circuit with a 'twist', I may start such experiments again.

Bill earlier in this thread mentioned replacing the battery with capacitors. This is a very good idea to see its DC voltage increasing or decreasing when you tweak your circuit: you charge up a supercap of a few Farad to 1.2V from your battery or from a supply and run your circuit from this supercap. After some time you will clearly see its DC voltage changing down or stays on or maybe inreasing as you tune or adjust your components.
You may find some Farad capacitors here http://www.readycomponents.com/1/3/gold-cap  and a 3.3F for 2.3V max DC working voltage costs $3.90 here http://www.readycomponents.com/1/1/197157-cap-33f-23v-gold-hw-radial-eechw0d335.html   Of course there are many places to buy similar Farad caps. If you use such cap instead of the battery, you will not get any illusion on the efficiency of you wonder circuits: once the initial input charge you start with gets reducing from your capacitor, you can be sure you still have a circuit of underunity...

Keep up your good work, do not be discouraged by my thoughts!

rgds,  Gyula

Hi Guyla

You're right about put capacitor 1000 uF pararel with battery.
Now i change the schematic and made revision to 08 (see attachment).
I've got email from my friend with attachment TEP (time energy pump) his version for 12V lead acid battery, 2 x TIP3055 and put C1,C2,C3 with 100nf, 100nf, 1000uF.
C1, C2, C3 must match with frekuensi oscilation.
I can't post his diagram without get permit from him.
What will i do only learn his concept and combining with my circuit design.
I can't find on my stock for 100nf, 100nf and 1000uf
I try with 150 nf, 150nf, 4700 uf
Now, with my circuit design , i got battery drain only 0.001 volt  every hours, without reducing brightness LED (output).
Thanks GOD

If we can find matching between frequency oscilation with c1,c2,c3, the battery will not drain anymore maybe only little bit.  It will  proof the led/output not related again with source/battery.

Unfortunally, i don't have the right tools to countinue my eksperiment, we must now exactly of freqeuncy oscilation and try with some combination of c1,c2,c3 . I think try with 100nf,100nf,1000uf and other 150nf,150nf,1500uf etc and some trial freqeuncy oscilation. After that make new equatation/formula relation between frequency oscilation and c1,c2,c3. Please share on this thread after u get result.


zon

[sanmankl]

I've tried your modification and my result is the same/similar to my earlier circuit (groundloop design).

@sanmank

Please allow your circuit running minimum 10 hours, before you make measurement.
Because the toroid will energized for that time.

zon

@zon, I'll do that. Actually, I changed my toroid to a bigger one so I may need longer run time before measurement.

Thanks. cp

[sanmankl]

2N2222A transistor, 60~65mA drainage. I somehow cannot get the circuit to >30mA like others do.

Hi Sanmankl,

I have included a trimmer potmeter in Zon schematics so that you could try to reduce the 60-65mA current consumption you have. The 470nF capacitor in parallel to this trimmer potmeter is to prevent the reducing effect of the potmeter in AC drive to the transistor base, so that only the DC base current can change when you turn the potmeter.
The 1000uF electrolytic capacitor I drew in parallel with the battery is not obligatory of course, it may help lower the AC inner impedance of the battery.

Gyula

@Gyula,

Thanks. I'll put in a 4700uF in parallel to the battery. I also found out that I can trim the mA consumption with a 220 ohm pot. Can't do it with the value suggested. Now, current consumption is at 20mA.

Cheers, cp