Stubblefield coils (bifilar) and speculations

[Pirate88179]

@ Jeanna:

Below quoted from Wiki: (Underline emphasis added by me)



Knob and tube wiring
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Knob and tube wiring in a 1930 home.
Knob and tube wiring in a 1930 home.
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Knob and tube wiring

Knob and tube wiring (sometimes abbreviated K&T) was an early standardized method of electrical wiring in buildings, in common use in North America from about 1880 to the 1930s.[1] It consisted of single insulated copper conductors run within wall or ceiling cavities, passing through joist and stud drill-holes via protective porcelain insulating tubes, and supported along their length on nailed-down porcelain knob insulators. Where conductors entered a wiring device such as a lamp or switch, they were protected by flexible cloth insulating sleeving. The first insulation was asphalt-saturated cotton cloth, then rubber became common. Wire splices in such installations were twisted for good mechanical strength, then soldered and wrapped with friction tape (asphalt saturated cloth), or made inside metal junction boxes.

Knob and tube wiring was displaced from interior wiring systems because of the high cost of installation compared with use of power cables, which combined both power conductors of a circuit in one run (and which later included grounding conductors).

Exposed wiring supported by porcelain knobs is still permitted by wiring codes, although it is unusual in new installations.

1880'-1930's.  This sounds like our time period.

Bill

[Pirate88179]

Also this guy talks of building/restoring an old 1920's radio and winding the coils with cotton insulated wire and also mentions the wire spacing problems encountered.

http://www.hotkey.net.au/~jimlowe/Browning%20Drake.htm

Looks like he did a nice job there.

Bill

Also, here is a link to some reasonable cotton covered wire by the original manufactures.  $60/100 feet, wire included  and installed!!!  This is used to wind guitar pick-up coils on vintage guitars like the old days. 20 and 22 ga. copper.

http://www.angela.com/catalog/wire-and-solder/Angela_Vintage_Cloth.html

[jeanna]

Quite a beautiful job.

I have a never before appreciation for a beautifully wound coil. 

I wonder if the silk useage is from down under. It is closer to china for sure. The person today who has studied the NS battery is from New Zealand and he said they used silk and cotton back then.

It would have been horribly expensive for american inventors to use silk. (that was my reasoning to look at it seriously.)

Some day when Hans comes back I might ask him. He is very busy on his new thread.

I think this thickness difference is really important. Having the iron wire thicker than the copper wire is making a big difference.

I will finish that last row soon and I will be able to really see.

jeanna

wow $60 for 100 ft. that is one coil. I guess once we get the thing perfected that won't be too much for a neverdead battery. Heck I just paid 128.00 for my truck battery.

[Pirate88179]

@ Jeanna:

That guy on the link I posted restoring the 1920's radio was from Australia but perhaps the radio was originally manufactured in the USA?

I am seriously considering ordering 100feet of the cotton covered copper wire in 20 ga. and then finding iron wire the same outside diameter as the insulation like you suggest.  If I do this, I will also find a massive soft iron core from somewhere.  Possibly like 2" diameter or maybe larger.  If that does not put out some high numbers, I don't know what else to do.

Bill

**Edit**  Yes,  a pretty good amount of $$ but...BUT, look how easy to wind Jeanna and, I only used about 28 feet of wire on my 2 layers on my largest coil to date.  100 feet should make a nice sized coil, or several decent sized ones.  It is very tempting.

[mthompson]

Storre,

IT WILL BE OBVIOUS THAT BY REASON OF THE MAGNETIC INDUCTIVE PROPERTIES OF THE COIL-BODY 4 THE CORE-PIECE 1 WILL NECESSARILY BE MAGETIZED WHILE A CURRENT IS GOING THROUGH THE BODY 4, SO THAT THE BATTERY MAY BE USED AS A SELF-GENERATING ELECTROMAGNET, IS FO DESIRED, IT BEING OBSERVED THAT TO SECURE THIS RESULT IS SIMPLY REQUIRED CONNECTING THE EXTENDED TERMINALS OF THE WIRES 5 AND 6 TOGETHER...

So the normally closed reed switch should be connected to terminals 5 and 6!

It is just that if you connect the 5,6 while the meter is clipped to the 10's the thing drops to zero.

so, this it the most important thing to clear up.

Making any kind of closed connection between the iron and copper is just making a short circuit in the electrolytic cell. There won't be any current flow through your meter if you create a short circuit which has less resistance.

"After you wind the primary you have 4 wires sticking up. The ends from where you started are called terminals 10. One is cu one is fe.  The ending of the wires are called terminals 5(copper) and 6(iron) . So 2 wires 4 ends. He says to leave the 10's open so that is where I try to hook my meter leads. (although there has never been a difference in voltage, cuz they are the same wire.)"

In the Electrolytic Circuit the coil wires are simply voltaic electrodes, just like plates, and the fact that there are 'ends' is pretty much meaningless - they aren't much more than easily accessible connection points, and one point on an electrode surface is basically no different than any other.

The Electro-magnetic Circuit differs from the Electrolytic Circuit in that it uses the coil wires as a means to direct the flow of electrons generated by the electrolytic action, to create an electro-magnetic field. In this case the coil wire ends do play a significant role as how the coils are wired will determine the direction of current flow and the form of the resulting magnetic field.

In this case it is mandatory that the current flows through the iron coil and the copper coil in the same direction, if not then their generated magnetic fields will basically cancel out. This means that a terminal end pair can not be used as the connecting points for the external circuit. If they are then the current will flow in one direction thru the copper coil and the opposite direction in the iron coil, and cancel out their magnetic fields, resulting in no electro-magnet and no transformer action.

The correct wiring procedure then would be to connect the ends of the external circuit to one of the '10s' and the other to the opposite 5 or 6. Which description goes to show how inane Stubblefield's nomenclature for the coil ends was and is.

If this external circuit has a make and break device to provide for operation of the transformer action, then the current will be pulsed DC not AC. If AC is desired then the make and break device would have to alternate between closing the circuit between one pair of terminals and then between the other as this will reverse the current flows through the coils.
......

Regarding insulation options has anyone considered:

cotton medical dressing gauze, which is attractive as it can be purchased in rolls of varying width; am not sure how sheer they make it however.
cheese cloth
nylon netting
seems like someone mentioned nylon hose one time which sounds good, especially sheer hose.

If a netting type of material is used, the actual absorption abilities of the material probably wouldn't matter so much as the moisture should be able to move through the spaces; and the material itself will basically serve to prevent metal to metal contact.