Stubblefield coils (bifilar) and speculations

[jeanna]

I have always checked all of my measurements from the cu to the core, or the fe to the core.  Never (almost never) any of the wires to each other.  On my first coil, I leaned to do it this way as the readings are always higher, much higher between these two points. Now, yesterday, just for the hell of it I did check and still, very low numbers. 

that just read 82mA's"!  That is my highest mA reading to date.  Now, it jumped down to 72 real fast but he could not believe it.

Bill

Well well,
I have only always read between the 10's or 5,6. The reading is the same so it doesn't matter, just as you say.

I just never noticed that you were doing this this way. Your pics are perfectly clear. I just never noticed. I wonder what everyone else has been measuring?
---------
next question,

After 72mA what does it do? does it stabilize? If you keep looking at it does it just slowly continue to go down?

Now My new dmm does the same thing but I don't ever check it with anything but NS coils. I have never been sure if this is a meter anomaly or the real thing.

If it is that curve that starts as a spike then falls and keeps going which is what it looks like, then it is following the curve of that RLC calculator for high resistance in an oscillator circuit. It goes up, but never gets the chance to oscillate because it never goes to zero..

There is one other item to mention that maybe is important. I learned from reading Tesla's pancake patent #512340 yesterday that a coil produces what he called "self-induction" which means that it damps the vibes, maybe this thing in this NS battery is what Tesla was calling self-induction. He says it comes from the coils as well as the conductors.

So, what Tesla describes as self-induction may be producing the same effect as the resistance I was playing with on that RLC circuit design program.

And if that first spike is real, then I have much higher numbers to report. I always wait for it to settle or I just figure it will go to zero. I ought to look closely at some of my notes to see if any ever climbed back up.

Good going, Bill, this might start to come together soon.

jeanna

[1tesla01]

Guys, The Tesla Bifilar does not have "self induction" so you can take it out of the equasion.Tesla said at sea level the earths frequency was 12 hz,compairded to a earth quake it is 2.5 which is a huge wave.Now getting the sea level and above sea level can be found at the ariport in your area.A 6 inch pancake coil resonates at 2mhz.Larger coils resonates at a lower frequency.Most all my coils are #8 copper as per Tesla.19-27 makes nice pancakes.I have wanted to make one at 16.6 because I think it would be a harmonic of the shawman frequency.I just use super glue and a hair dryer and cardboard and spin two different color wires.This is simple to me.One of my designs on a different type of generator can be found at( www.geocities.com/phononstring ) the name of the site is Teslas Secrets.Regards Andy

[Pirate88179]

@ Jeanna:

First, I believe that NS described in his patent (one of them) that this is a self inducting induction coil.  I remember Hans speaking of that as well...Joe too.  This may be the difference between Tesla and Stubblefield designs, I don't know.

About the meter.  I have not double checked in a while but for a bit I was using both analog and digital meters to check results.  Everything was always the same including the ac readings so now I just use the digital.  My understanding of the way meters check amps is that it is placed as a load in the circuit.  This is why the numbers drop.  I think those initial readings are real, to a point, as they may not be useful power in the long run.  I have always looked at those, mostly where it stabilizes and then drops off in a regular manner.  In other words...I test my cell...boom..it shows 82mA....1...2...3...seconds it reads 71........3 seconds later it reads 70..........then 69....68...and so on.  I never left it hooked up but I guess i felt it would go to 0.  Maybe not.  Maybe it will stop dropping at 5 or something.  Joe reported similar happenings with some of his tests as I remember he made that comment on my first video. OK, I just now quickly tested an AAA battery for amps: .54 A......3 seconds....  .53...   then .52.....  and then .51.  It appeared to stop dropping at about .49 amps.  This was just a quick test.  So, tomorrow, I will leave the meter hooked to the coil and see how low it goes and report back.  Maybe I should have done this all along.  I just thought the meter was shorting it (like placing a wire to the + and- of an AA battery) and it would go to 0 eventually.  I learn something new here every day.  when I take my photos, it is still dropping slowly but the meter can be photographed.  The initial spike we see happens and is over before I can get my camera into position.  Still, whatever the results, we still are not dealing with much power here and we need to fix that. I still feel like I am stumbling along in the dark here, but, I feel like progress is being made.  My higher mA numbers (from spikes or not) are still higher than they were so at least we are going the right way.  the vdc is lower with these coils Jeanna, have you noticed that?  I was going to post some of my pics from the old electrode days and I just saw one that was over 2 volts dc.  But, I have always heard, power is everything, if we get power, we can get volts.  Great questions Jeanna.

Bill

[jeanna]

@ Jeanna:

First, I believe that NS described in his patent (one of them) that this is a self inducting induction coil.  I remember Hans speaking of that as well...Joe too.  This may be the difference between Tesla and Stubblefield designs, I don't know.

Yes, I think it is just useage or archaic or something language related. I think he was meaning eddy currents or something like that when he solved the problem of self induction with this pancake.

Here is the quote:

"In electric aparatus or systems inwhich alternating currents are employed, the self-induction of the coils or conductors may, and in fact, in many cases does operate disadvantageously by giving rise to false currents which often reduce what is known as the commercial efficiency..."

He goes on to say that it can be neutralized by better proportions and capacitors. And the point of the invention was to do away with the clumsy capacitor.

I haven't worked with this stuff but it sounds like eddy currents to me. So the use of the term self-induction has been changed over time, I think.

Bill,
I am glad you brought it up. I just had to put it together for myself to state it here.

About the meter.  I have not double checked in a while but for a bit I was using both analog and digital meters to check results.  Everything was always the same including the ac readings so now I just use the digital. Bill

I bought one from rs but the resolution is even worse than my dmm. all I can read on my dmm for vac is .1v. I need one of those with a sweep dial that has a resolution of .001vac.

I saw that a wheatstone bridge is something that those early electric guys used. It is cool. 

Search for it on google. I read 3 papers on it yesterday. It is sort of like what Jim electricme seems to be making.  A cool device. mm more stuff.

The thing you can't get from the dmm is a sweep of a needle that shows the fluctuations of the V or Amps changing. I kind of thing it is what we need, but where to find an ancient ammeter? make one? probably. (this is fun)

jeanna

[jeanna]

Guys, The Tesla Bifilar does not have "self induction"

Thanks Andy,
I realize that. He invented a solution to this self induction when he invented the pancake coil.

But I think the Stubblefield coil does have plenty. lots of eddy currents - whatever to do about that I don't know.

A 6 inch pancake coil resonates at 2mhz.Larger coils resonates at a lower frequency.

Now that is a very interesting piece of information.

Andy, Do you know how to relate this coil with a "normal" or helical coil? With your experiments, do you have a guess about what coil dimensions or length of wire or something we can use, will give us this or any particular frequency?

We are not making even normal bifilar coils because one of the "fila's" is iron. Plus it has a soft iron core. But it would be really nice to have a starting place.

One of my designs on a different type of generator can be found at( www.geocities.com/phononstring ) the name of the site is Teslas Secrets.Regards Andy

I just went to your cool site.
Is there any way to make a pdf of your design so we can see it here?

Thanks for being here.

jeanna