Roll on the 20th June

[The Eskimo Quinn]

Oh well it was a new play time for a week or so, now i have work and exams at the same time, late nights and weekends for work, will check in everyday if i get a chance.

I will leave you an MQ special, just to mess with your heads,

Take 100 kilos of water place in to a scale that has a low flatish water tray style setup, like a friut shop scale now remove and place a tall water tank in the tray and reset the scales to zero now fill with the same 100kgs of water, why does it weigh the same?

Should it? now go and push on the sides of the plastic tank and feel the pressure/weight pushing back out at the sides, so if all the weight is not going straight down, why is there not less showing on the scale?, is there now extra energy that was not there before all from the same weight?

have fun 

[sm0ky2]

E = mgh * the distribution of water above the top of the low-flat tank.

sorry to take the fun out of it, but lets get back to business shall we?

[The Eskimo Quinn]

E = mgh * the distribution of water above the top of the low-flat tank.

sorry to take the fun out of it, but lets get back to business shall we?

sorry, wrong answer. E= MGH is correct if there were 100 1 kilo weights,

However repeat the experiment exactly the same with the weights, there is no pressure or weight against the wall of the tank all the weight  energy goes straight down.

This is how you find what science and engineers miss, sometimes you have to throw the math out the door, because as you see, if the energy is not the same the math cannot be the same. Fluid dynamics are not the same as solids. EG a tank with 100 psi air inside will weigh more than a larger open tank with the same air volume as was compressed inside, because you can weigh the compressed air, and air is part of fluid dynamics and is regarded as a liquid. so too water behaves differently when pressurised which it does to itself when stacked as in the second higher tank. These simple errors or assumptions are what prevent us from finding answers, i know you remembered it the minute you read it, but hey sometimes you forget these things, my mower wouldn't start recently, it behaved like there was water in the fuel, however the tank and lid are well sealed and in perfect condition and i knew it couldn't get in from the rain, it took me two weeks to empty the tank, I had forgotton about the breather hole and condensation. the water did not leak into the tank, it was created in the tank.

If you want to quantify the waters ability to convert energy, self pressurise with the use of energy such as a compressor, take the same scales, now get an 80litre round rubber bag shaped like a large balloon, and slowly fill it with the 100 litres of water, the bag will stretch to fit the whole 100 litres, twist and seal the top, you now have pressure pushing vertical as well as every other direction, additionall tension energy in the walls of the bag, and still 100 kgs showing on the scale.


ok now the important part, you said lets get back to the matter at hand, this is the matter at had, gravity and pressure, remember how we were talking about that delay/field compression in the magnets? well i did some tests that anyone can replicate in about 5 minutes.

when you release the pressure of the water or air, it simply returns to its normal state, the magnetic field when compressed do not have the same reaction. take two ring magnets on a pole, or two in a flat box with slits in the side so they can sit suspended over each other, now add sufficient weight of any kind on the top to compress the fields down, now lift up the weight on the top and the magnet will return to where it was, but push the top magnet down with a wooden skewer and remove the skewer from the side, and the magnet will not simply return to where it was, it will fly well past where it normally sits. The magnets are storing gravitational/pressure weight energy and releasing it like a spring. the magnets are capable of storing more than just magnetic energy. or the quickest way to test is to hold two magnets compressed between you fingers and let the outer one go, it will fly several feet, yet will only sit a few centimetres apart. I think this explains why the electromagnet works so well as the field are so close together/compressed and are firing like the magnets between you fingers, there is instantly stored and released gravitational, or pressurised energy that is not there when two magnets simply repell to their natural distance, as with a permanent magnetic arc. I Think we, or most certainly I was not looking at all the physics involved, i think the wall was such an issue that i did not think of a massive missing power component.

[The Eskimo Quinn]

have some newtonian maths questions, not puzzles i need the math for a machine

400kg falling 10 metres convert to joules or kilowatts

2500kg falling 2 metres convert to joules,

I think the basics f = ma x distance but the calculation is 400 x 9.81 x 10  divided by 2 to get average speed but from there I only remember the time calculation in seconds, where i want the calcualtion in distance not time.

I could approximate using 4.9 metres per second as the standard fall rate and assume the rate is 9.8 metres in seconds, but i am not sure the speed will be exactly that due to rotational curve of a wheel, so I am going with weight and distance.

any maths wizards?

[sm0ky2]

you already know the answer to the question. E = mgh

so what i will give you is the math to get there in the direction you are choosing to take.

e= 1/2 mv

if you have a 400kg object, falling from rest at 10m
  you have 39,200 joules
(velocity at impact is ~14 m/s, the derivitive of time, from the fall 9.8 m/s/s , and 10 meters.
note that mass does not affect the velocity, its only the distance of the fall [h] ).

if you have a 2500kg object falling for 2 meters,
you have 49,000 joules (velocity of ~ 6.261 m/s)

this is the kenetic energy of the impact.
not to be confused with the momentum (force) of the object actually hitting the ground.
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Now, about the water.  You were right when you hinted on fluid dynamics being different than stacking solid objects.
the force of a fluid is multidirectional. this is what you "feel" when you push on the sides of the container. not all of the force is directly downwards, because of the pressure gradient from bottom to top of the container.

the ENERGY, is still E=mgh for the water. if you were to poke a hole in the side, where you were pushing, and extract "energy", the water above the hole would drain down to where the hole is, and the potential energy of x mass of water would be converted.