Roll on the 20th June

[dirt diggler]

Ok, now I am confused(happens all the time).  I glue a magnet on to the ceiling, place a peice of steel on the floor under the magnet, steel flies up in the air, sticks to the magnet.  but no work was done, cause a magnet lifted the steel, and we all know that magnets can't do work.  Right??

[onesnzeros]

oh please you are not even good sparing.


dam those anti gravity non newtonian water springs that feed rivers, oh and gravity is hydro force???

, well actually a damm overflows because it is full, a spring fed damm that cannot overflow but has a lid and a pipe creates pressure to hydro.

I think I understand what  you are trying to say, that there are other sources of energy that can move water into a potential energy state suitable for electrical generation. I wonder if the spring water flows because of gravity and if so, I really don't know what your point would be. Giezers are another matter of course.

sometimes is not all the time, that is why newtons laws are not laws, just vauge guidelines.

An example of "vague guidlines" would be your instructions on how to build a perpetual motion device IMHO.

1/0

[MrGrynch]

Ok, now I am confused(happens all the time).  I glue a magnet on to the ceiling, place a peice of steel on the floor under the magnet, steel flies up in the air, sticks to the magnet.  but no work was done, cause a magnet lifted the steel, and we all know that magnets can't do work.  Right??

The way I see it, the magnet did not do the work of lifting the steel.  The steel did.  The magnet polarizes the surrounding vacuum such that when the steel is placed within this polarized vacuum spin field, it reacts by moving toward the magnet.  The only role for the magnet was the polarization of the surrounding vacuum, which is not doing work... its what it is.  If it did not do this, it would not be a magnet.  An electron isn't doing work by generating a negative charge force.  If you place a simple bar magnet on a CRT display with either the N or S pole touching the glass, you will see a pattern form.. now twist the magnet without lifting it from the screen.. does the pattern change?   No, because the field is not tied to the magnet, it is the deformation (polarization) of the surrounding vacuum.

[exxcomm0n]

I sincerely hope that's not a verbatim quote from Wikipedia.. in any event:

The flow - or flux - of electrons through the conductor produces a field; the field, when interacting with other magnetic materials produces a force. Inductance is is related, but inductance is not the same thing as a magnetic field.

This one is cut and paste.
Inductance
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

An electric current i flowing around a circuit produces a magnetic field and hence a magnetic flux Φ through the circuit. The ratio of the magnetic flux to the current is called the inductance, or more accurately self-inductance of the circuit. The term was coined by Oliver Heaviside in February 1886[citation needed]. It is customary to use the symbol L for inductance, possibly in honour of the physicist Heinrich Lenz but perhaps simply from the word Loop. The quantitative definition of the inductance in SI units (webers per ampere) is

    L= \frac{\Phi}{i}.

In honour of Joseph Henry, the unit of inductance has been given the name henry (H): 1H = 1Wb/A.

It's not an unreasonable statement - in fact, I would tend to agree. Problem is, the actual amount of stored energy in a permanent magnet is quite small.. if you were able to design a machine which used the PE stored in the magnet to perform useful work, you'd find that as energy storage goes, a magnet is a very poor battery.

But it does it for a long long time.

In concept, absolutely. But the the real real world, it would be difficult if not impossible to find a field, magnetic or gravitational, that is not producing some force with respect to another object. That said, these forces may be so infinitesimally weak as to make detection a daunting task indeed.   

Not necessarily any force.. but rather a flux. Take a superconducting electromagnet for example, in which a standing current flows continuously around a loop. It's a superconductor, so there is no resistance - so the current does no work - yet the magnetic field is constantly present.

If it can be detected, it is a force.

You can see that the Super EM is quite a bit like a PM - there is a flux and a field, without recourse to constant external energy input. The only difference being, that in the PM, the flux is composed of virtual photons rather than electrons as in the Super EM.

Ummmmmmm....quasi-light? Last time I heard about photons, they had to do with light.

Depends on your definition of 'extra'. If your existing process (firing a spark gap) is wasteful enough that it will continue to function, after a small amount of energy is tapped to produce a new PM, then no - you don't need any additional energy. But don't conflate such a situation with the anomalous production of 'free' energy.

I play w/ HHO for the benefit it can do the environment and my pocketbook.
For grins and giggles (since I'm schtupid) I close wrapped the generation vessel that housed my electrodes with solid core copper wire (regular house service wire 40-50 turns) to supply 1 electrode, and coarse wound 5/16" copper tubing in 3 winds to supply the other. Like a Tesla coil.

Took me a little bit to discover that I could cross polarities with impunity at any angle, but if the same polarity crossed itself it would breed heat (wasted energy). So I was careful not to do that anymore.

Now when I crank it up and it starts producing gas, I hold a neomag next to/ in-between/ on top of the coils and I can feel the neomag vibrate. The vibration is in direct proportion to the amperage.
I can place small objects of ferrous metal next to the coils (especially in-between) and have them act as magnets during current flow, if not becoming magnetized to a degree and length of time dependent on Fe content.

Now the weird thing is w/ HHO production, is that if you reverse polarity to your electrodes quickly, you kill production (water actually seems to clear faster).
I've proven it.
I've seen other YouTube HHO people show the same effect, and whether it's because the cell is acting as a leaky capacitor, or the water gets "aligned" a certain way, or Heysues Crisco's damnation of this faint representation of AC current, it takes a BIG jolt of amps to get production flowing again and it still takes a while to reach the previous output.

But I can do it with the wrapped cell.
I take a approx. 1/5th production hit, but I realize immediate production.
It stalls on switch 5% of the time, but picks up at the next alternation.

Sounds like using a coil to lower inductance

[/quote]

I'm all for that!

You and me both brother!

Not sure what to say, other than I'd advise you to avoid taking any instruction in physics from a certain individual.

You're trying, and it's appreciated. But don't tell me not to listen to someone.
If I can do that to him because of what you say, pretty soon I'm doing the same thing to you because of what someone else told me, and pretty soon I'm not allowed to talk to anyone.

[gn0stik]

What a great thread. So we've got everyone attacking this guy, because, well, that's what we do.

First, we express interest.
Second, we contact the individual, for more information so we can duplicate.
Third, we refuse to duplicate and go for the throat.

BTW, this is a magnet motor and not a gravity wheel. It could be more effectively accomplished on a horizontal plane with two opposing springs and the same magent arrangement on both sides of the wheel. Same concept, just not using gravity as it's a weak force and you could only ever get relatively slow RPM from it, as the gravity cannot react fast enough for higher RPMs. So replace the gravity requirement with springs. So the magnets are doing the same amount of "work" (ahem).

Too bad you destroyed your smaller device.

Here's a tip.
If you want to present something like this, it's all about presentation.

There are minimum requirements for being taken seriously.
Clear concise descriptions.
Diagrams with dimensions etc.
Proof of concept materials, a small model (good but not necessarily required)
Retard proof build instructions... leave nothing to creativity. (seriously, people will try to improve it, use creative license, and fuck it up, and blame you)

See, people round these here parts will spin their wheels indefinitely on a fraud with a video, than on a genuine device without one. I'm not saying that your device is genuine, only that if it were, you haven't presented it in such a manner that people here will want to persue it.

Finally, stop being such a condescending prick.

Rich