David Bowling's Continuous Charging Device

[Dbowling]

The important thing about Skywatcher's thread and post that I wanted folks to understand is that you can run an inverter between the positives and NOT just a motor or a light bulb. He put together a system using what he had. IT IS FAR FROM THE BEST that you could put together, but running an inverter in this position is important. WHY? Because it allows you to run AC loads on the potential difference of a DC system. You can run at LEAST a 100 watt load off that inverter while the energy that is going through the inverter is 12 volts at HOW MANY AMPS?  Plus all that energy that went through the inverter ended up in the lower batteries rather than expended. Doesn't anybody realize how important that is??

[SeaMonkey]

You can run at LEAST a 100 watt load off that inverter while the energy that is
going through the inverter is 12 volts at HOW MANY AMPS?    Plus all that
energy that went through the inverter ended up in the lower batteries rather
than expended. Doesn't anybody realize how important that is? ?

Hmmmm.  Not everyone will agree with your statement about "all that energy."

While it is true that the inverter and the lower battery receive the same level
of current flow each will individually account for some portion of the total energy.
The inverter input plus the lower battery input will in sum equal the total.

In a series circuit each component has its own energy consumption/dissipation.  No?

[Dbowling]

If I understand you, you are asking if the energy that "left" the two batteries in series is equal to the energy that went through the inverter PLUS the energy that ended up in the lower battery because the inverter and the lower battery are wired in series. Am I correct that this is your question? If so, the answer is "No". When you run the energy through the inverter and into battery three, the same energy gets used twice. Yes, there are losses in the wire from heat (friction) but essentially you get the same amount of energy in battery 3 that "left" the two primaries in series, and you ran the load for free. Here is a video I made to trying show what I am talking about. By the way, the measurements I took on this video were after the batteries had rested for two hours after running them so that voltages could "settle out" . The charged batteries always go DOWN after having rested for a while and the primaries always climb back up a little after resting for a while.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nD7a4bPS4o8


Let me be VERY, VERY clear. This circuit is NOT the final solution. Matt's motor is NOT the final solution. Matt's motor run on this circuit is NOT the final solution. Adding the boost circuit is NOT the final solution. You need ALL these things and more.You need the switching to rotate the batteries through the five different positions when battery 3 is charged up. You need five GOOD STRONG fully charged batteries that are not old and worn out. Each one will move through these five positions in this order. 1. Position One (as Battery one of the two in series)2. Position two (as battery 2 of the two in series)3. Resting Because it has been DISCHARGED in BOTH the previous positions)4. Position three (in parallel with one and two, charging)5. RestingYou need a generator run by the motor that can put out power so you can ADD a little power back into the system when it is needed. Nothing lasts forever, and cold and heat are the ENEMIES of batteries. The efficiency on this system will go up and down with the heat and cold. Without a generator to contribute a little extra when you need it, this will eventually come to a screeching halt. Without a generator run by the motor, you have NOTHING here that is going to get you what you want. It is the efficiency of all these things working together that get you the grand slam. But any decent generator is going to give you COP>3 or MORE if all these things are in place. It just IS. I have built it. It works. Getting all of this to work is NOT rocket science. We have provided MORE than enough information. But getting it to work is only the beginning. Then you need to figure out how to apply these principles to the construction of more advanced devices. That's where we are now, and we aren't posting that information. Maybe in a few months. People still won't accept THIS so why on earth would we share MORE.

[tinman]

 author=Dbowling link=topic=4612.msg485910#msg485910 date=1465287750]

If I understand you, you are asking if the energy that "left" the two batteries in series is equal to the energy that went through the inverter PLUS the energy that ended up in the lower battery because the inverter and the lower battery are wired in series. Am I correct that this is your question? If so, the answer is "No".

The correct answer is--the energy provided by the two batteries in series,is equal to the energy consumed by both the inverter and the 3rd battery.

When you run the energy through the inverter and into battery three, the same energy gets used twice.

No,that is incorrect.
If the two batteries in series are outputting say 100 watts,and your inverter is consuming say 60 watts,then the remaining 40 watts is being delivered to the 3rd battery.

Yes, there are losses in the wire from heat (friction) but essentially you get the same amount of energy in battery 3 that "left" the two primaries in series, and you ran the load for free.

No,as stated above,battery 3 only receives the remaining energy that the inverter did not dissipate.
The load was not run for free.
Your mistake is failing to account for the voltage drop across the inverter,which would be around 12.5 to 13.4 volts. The current flowing through the inverter and battery 3 will be the same,but the voltage across each will be close to half of the supply voltage-->many people make this mistake.

Here is a video I made to trying show what I am talking about. By the way, the measurements I took on this video were after the batteries had rested for two hours after running them so that voltages could "settle out" . The charged batteries always go DOWN after having rested for a while and the primaries always climb back up a little after resting for a while.

That is correct,but voltage across a battery is not a measure of the remaining energy capacity of the battery.
This is another mistake people make,when dealing with batteries. The only way to calculate the remaining energy in the batteries,is by way of a pacific gravity test.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8qL6HR6vrbY

Before encouraging people to spend there time and money on this project,i would suggest you take the time to make more accurate power measurements,and actual energy consumption values from your series supply batteries,as simply reading the battery voltages before and after a test run,will not tell you how much of the stored energy was used from your supply batteries,nor how much was delivered and stored by your receiving battery.
The Bedini fans fall for this very same mistake-over and over.


Brad

[Dbowling]

Brad,
You ask a question and when I answer it, you tell me I am wrong.
This is why I will no longer waste my time coming here.
You did not want my answer. All you wanted was an opportunity to tell me I am wrong.
Well, you got it, but after today you won't get any more chances.
I will not waste my time arguing with someone who has a closed mind because of what they "believe" and will not take the time to build the system and do the PROPER testing you are so committed to but have obviously NOT done.


I have spent 8 years of my life working with potential differences.
I have spent thousands of dollars and run thousands of tests.
I have ruined a hundred batteries running batteries in circuits that did not provide enough energy across the potential to properly charge the low side. Many of those are in my "dead battery bank", but some have been turned in for core charges.
I have paid for lab time at the university to use their battery analyzer to do controlled measurements of inputs and outputs. Tests that are far more accurate than a "pacific gravity" test. And by the way, it is a "SPECIFIC" gravity test, not "pacific". I have done that too. Have YOU? I didn't think so.
I know what I know.

Have you actually built this circuit and put a scope on it? Because when you tune the boost module, you can select the voltage that hits the battery on the other side of the load and it is hit with 14.5 volts. Period. The motor will actually put out 14.5 out the other side, or MORE,  WITHOUT a boost converter in the mix because it acts as a generator at the same time it is running as a motor, and run between the potentials that generated voltage comes out in a way that does NOT happen in a normal situation. But that is ANOTHER issue. What the boost module does is maintain the voltage at 14.5 to the charge battery for a much longer period of time, when the TRUE voltage across the potential has dropped to as low as 7 or 8 volts because the charge battery has come UP while the primaries have gone DOWN. Anyone who has EVER run this circuit for an extended length of time can tell you that they will get extended run times out of the batteries. Will it run forever? NO! I am not saying it will. I am saying that as PART OF A SYSTEM, it gets you where you want to be.


You can choose to BELIEVE what you WANT to BELIEVE and I will choose to KNOW what I KNOW. Yes, I AM encouraging people to build the ENTIRE system I spoke of above, because I know that AS A SYSTEM it works. I have it sitting on the bench in my shop and it produces free energy. Is the specific circuit BY ITSELF COP>1?  Yes it is. But that is NOT enough to get people where they want to be. I am NOT saying that it is. You only recover about 80-90% of what is run through the system, but do you have any idea what that works out to when coupled with an efficient generator?


But you win Brad.
I will go away now
Another victory for those with a closed mind


And do you know WHY I am giving in so easy? Because YOU are not important, and because this BASIC information that I have tried so hard to share is just the BEGINNING of a long path I went down to find the answers I was looking for. We have moved beyond this. Way beyond. It was our hope that this BASIC information would start others down the correct path, but if you want to be the road block to that, be my guest. My conscience is clear. I have tried MANY TIMES to get the information out there and that is all anyone can do. Best of luck to ya mate.