put this in your pipe and smoke it.......possible gas saver.. what do you think?

[Haliburton]

Well say what you want but try this for example:

Get a front wheel drive car, remove the back wheels and drive it down the road.

You probably will not get good MPG

Now take that same car and put a wing on the back to lift the rear axle off the road.

I would bet a beer that the car with the wing on the back will not only get better MPG then the one without but it would also act as a normal car under the right speed in a straight line.

Like i said before what has for friction.  the moving parts of a car, or the wind hitting the wind shield

The bearings used today are not frictionless, but nearly so.  There is a lot of precision that goes into making them.  A bearing does not "know" how much weight is placed upon it.

So tell me Billy what creates more heat and more noise and more wasted energy

Wind on a smooth wind foil or bearings packed in grease under a heavy load

Lighter is better yes.  No argument from me on that.

If lighter is better that means a wind foil would be better as long as it created less friction in the momentum forward then the moving parts under a heavier load right?

[Pirate88179]

Haliburton:

As another already posted, the airfoil would not change the mass and therefore the inertia.  This is the most significant portion of the mileage equation I believe.  I'll take your beer bet and say that it might actually be pretty close.  Yes, friction is a parasite but so is drag.  Friction does not increase exponentially, drag does. (as relates to air resistance)   I am not a scientist here and have no definitive answers.  I just look around and see some things for myself.

As I have tried to say, I think we are all on the same side here.  I am just trying to say to keep physics and known science in the mix or some will be chasing their tail.

Again, as far as your bearings question, I have personally machined very low friction, extremely high precision ceramic bearings in my lifetime and the wind on the airfoil would offer more resistance for sure.  But, don't just take my word for it.  Look it up, ask others.  I really don't think I am wrong on this  but I am not perfect.  Always good to know.

Bill

[vdubdipr]

i dont know pirate, the higher i get the more i think it will work... did you try that?

[Haliburton]

Ok well i do understand what you mean by having bearing that are just about frictionless.

What about the tires on the vehicle.

From what i understand, cant you like lose up to like 20% MPG with tires that may not be inflated all the way.

The tires have a inflation limit for over inflation explosion purposes and stopping power. 

Would the wind foil reduce the amount of tire and pavement friction increasing MPG???

Also would the wind foil act as a air suspension for your vehicle,  if so maybe that up and down force on the wing could be harnised some how just like solenoid

Could the wings have some sort or angle like a plane where if you hit the brakes they return to making no lift but down force, increasing the weight of the vehicle in turn  increasing the stopping power or turning power.

So in other words the brake and gas power would control the up and down of the fin reducing and increasing the friction put upon the tires and pavement?

its seems as tho it may work 

[Pirate88179]

In the 1960's, there was a race car called the Chaperal. (may not be spelled right)  This car won a lot of races until it was banned because it had a rear spoiler that would be set to the straight position for high speed and as the driver approached a corner, he moved the spoiler to a position that would put heavy down force on the car for the turns. (you can google it)  an added bonus was that the airfoil created tremendous drag in the deflected position which helped the car slow down for the turns (road course) thereby saving the brakes.  The other racers said it was not fair so it was banned.

The 20% increase in mileage figure you mention for properly inflated tires seems very high to me.  It is true that properly inflated tires offer lower rolling resistance as compared to under inflated ones.

Another example of how important drag is on a vehicle, in the "old" days, it was better to not run the ac and roll the windows down because the ac compressor takes about 15-20 hp.  Now, with cars that are much more aerodynamic new studies say that you get better mileage with the windows up and the ac on.

The single best way to increase gas mileage has to do with the driver.  I read some stuff the other day about "high mileagers" that hold competitions to see who can get the best mpg on their vehicles.  I think the winner got over 110 mpg!  People every day get over 60 mpg from their minivans.  Most people would not drive like they do, and also would not want to be behind any of them on the road.  They accelerate very slowly and seldom use the brakes.  They say that if you have to use the brakes, you have not anticipated the road conditions properly.  If they know they are going to make a turn, they slow down way before the turn so brakes are not needed.

I'll see if I can find that site and post a link here.  If everyone drove like them, we would have more gas than we could use.

Bill