URGENT! WATER AS FUEL DISCOVERY FOR EVERYONE TO SHARE

[plasmastudent77]

Aussepom ( and others )

I have posted the idea of adding basically 4 spark plugs per cylinder to enable delivery of a large ammount of energy to the water vapour ( or GEET fumes ).

What do you think? My idea is that perhaps one plug just isnt going to deliver enough kick ass to make it happen......or is too concentrated in its power delivery.

My thinking is that :

(1) Water needs a serious boot to get it to crack ( stretch ) initially....
(2) Water is not like petrol ( gas ) which is combustible right away - it needs to be "stretched" ( converted ) inside the engine first
(3) Perhaps it needs two boots, one quickly after the other - first to crack, the second to ginite.


I keep grinding on this subject ( and get politely ignored ) coz people expect water to behave like gas and burn like gas - but it aint gas......

Thoughts flames/abuse welcome......

[gotoluc]

It appears as though it is a mosfet driven system, maybe with a charging side that charges a cap up to about 450 volts, but the cap must be small, because the effect is not like the larger capacitive discharge you see using an SCR or relay. Also, you get multiple discharges per crank signal and the color is a whitish yellow. This is the same effect Krupa shows in his earlier videos. The switching sound coming from the driver is characteristically mosfet or igbt, the same type of sound you hear from a modern day inverter type TIG welder. Bob say's that the output from these drivers is nowhere near what we was getting in his original videos, and to the naked eye it appears he is right. You see the streamers of HV across the plug but not the plasma effect we are looking for. Also, the units shut down when the diode string is used, they simply will not work with it in place and thus you rely solely on the rated output of the driver and coil. We have used 5 different coils. One was called a flamethrower, blaster3, blaster2, and I can't remember what the other two were, but they were drag racing coils made by Accell. Now, I have not run these 1 joule drivers in parallel but I will try that next week and see if it makes a difference. We have 5 of them and so I might try running a filtered supply from the variac and see how high I can go before it lets the smoke out 


Bob claims that this 1 joule driver is what was used, but he say's it may have been used at higher voltages than it was originally designed for. He calls it the adrenaline ignition which at the time was brand new technology and only custom built on a one off basis for dragsters, etc. Now these drivers can be purchased but are a staggering $10,000 American dollars per unit. I would cut off a finger to have a schematic but clearly that's not going to happen. We can try and design a unit similar to the 555 charge pump and discharge side like I've seen posted, but I would imagine we would need some ISOTOP style packaged Mosfets with 800 volt @ 50 ampere rating or so in order to make it realiable and capable of 5 joules or so.

Thank you once again UncleFester for taking the time to explain what you and Bob know about these coils. I have some HV 1uf caps!... do you think a 1uf charged to 450vdc would still too much to drive the coil?

I haven't yet tried it with the diode setup and find it strange that it would just stop working

I did not get some SCR's yet since the local electronic store I use only had 2 models in stock and neither were the model of Groundloop's schematic. So I though I would wait till I see feedback from users as which SCR works best but no one has posted any info. Since you are doing very serious switching, may I ask you what you have found that works best for this application?  is it an SCR's or Power MOSFET? and what would be the part number?

Thank you UncleFester for your help and sharing the experiment you are doing at this time.

Luc

[ezbruce]

Mr. LUC
I will try to get the Miller welder schematic here. http://www.millerwelds.com/om/o315p_mil.pdf

WOW it works Ha-HA-HA I take back everything I was thinking about Bill Gates...
Back to our business .
Please look at the lower Right hand side of the schematic.Around T-2 and T-3   there are a few caps and some resistors. Mixing the two different signals together on a single wire can and has been done for many years. I will explane how to make a spark box later this is a method of separating the two signals,and not having a short in the system.

note that the work represents the ground of the spark plug.And the electrode represents the center of the plug( ALSO NOTE THAT IN A TIG welder you can change the DC politary or go to AC if needed.)
For all you electronics guys I hope that this just might be the breakthrough we need.So far I have not been able to use a "piggyback" current to get a Plasma on my spark plugs.I will never claim to be a electronic wizz. but I can solder up circuits ( also burn them up on occasion) and try different hook ups.IN SAYING THIS HAS ANYONE BEEN ABLE TO GET A HIGH AMP CHARGE TO ' PIGGYBACK 'AS OF YET??? Please fell free to comment . thanks for the computer lesson Mr.LUC
thanks   Bruce

[gotoluc]

Hi Guys
The figures I quoted are real, you can work it out for you self quite easily.
It is well known that a litre of water can produce HOH with electrolysis the gas amount is also a fact 1 litre for 2065liters of HOH. (Browns gas) though this is wrong he did not invent it.
If you can process water correctly this is what you can achieve at 100% change.
Now this HOH gas is NOT FULLY DISSASOSIATED. Just stretched out like an elastic band, it takes energy to stretch it, and a little less to hold it in the stretched position, when you ignite it, it will release the energy and then return to its original shape from 2 cubic metres of 'gas space'  back to 1 litre of water. Do this in a sealed container and you will create a vacuum with 1,999 litres and one litre of water.
You will have a potential lift pressure of  19.7lb/sq" this test can be seen on Utube, Allgoodautomation.
I did not agree with the work done energy as the time that it took to do it was not timed, and I do not think it could be done due to the extreamley fast flame speed of HOH.

      Calculated      
      Gas HOH         
lts/hr   water   2065/ltr      cubic M   
   lts min   lts/min   lts/sec   min   sec
60   1   2,065   34.42   2.065   0.034
108   1.8   3,717   61.95   3.717   0.062
150   2.5   5,163   86.05   5.163   0.086
300   5   10,325   172.08   10.325   0.172
390   6.5   13,423   223.72   13.423   0.224
750   12.5   25,813   430.22   25.813   0.430
960   16   33,040   550.67   33.04   0.551
2,160   36   74,340   1239.00   74.34   1.239
2,580   43   88,795   1479.92   88.795   1.480
4,200   70   144,550   2409.17   144.55   2.409
5,400   90   185,850   3097.50   185.85   3.098
This table is just what you could achieve with HOH.

How ever if you fully DISSASOSIATE, you will have to take the LHV of the separate gases in the correct formula to get the LHV, I have such a programme I can mix any gas in any quantity it will give me all the relative information.  That why the LHV I quoted is at 182 and the 12.8 is the MJ value per Cubic metre. THIS IS NOT THE LHV FOR HOH, no one has proven this and given the LHV value, some has have tried with some guess work.
This may not fit very well in your thread but it is information that you may find useful.
It may give you insight to what can happen inside you ICE engine, when with just a small amount of HOH could lift your energy up by 1% .
Ok Luc I hope this is useful information, please do as you wish with it.
aussepom     

Hi aussepom,

thank you for posting these calculations. I'm not sure what LHV stands for!... is it, Liter Hydrogen Value?

If I understand this correctly, you are are sharing results of not fully disassociated water to HOH!... it is just in a stretched state as you say and you have tested water in this stretched state and have come up with this data?... is my understanding correct?

If this is correct, then you have the missing link we are all looking for and this would works perfectly with this topic since what we need is a way of preparing the water for our spark.

What would we use (circuit or device) to condition the water to this stretched state and keep it this way till combustion?

Thanks for sharing

Luc

[gotoluc]

Mr. LUC
I will try to get the Miller welder schematic here. http://www.millerwelds.com/om/o315p_mil.pdf

WOW it works Ha-HA-HA I take back everything I was thinking about Bill Gates...
Back to our business .
Please look at the lower Right hand side of the schematic.Around T-2 and T-3   there are a few caps and some resistors. Mixing the two different signals together on a single wire can and has been done for many years. I will explane how to make a spark box later this is a method of separating the two signals,and not having a short in the system.

note that the work represents the ground of the spark plug.And the electrode represents the center of the plug( ALSO NOTE THAT IN A TIG welder you can change the DC politary or go to AC if needed.)
For all you electronics guys I hope that this just might be the breakthrough we need.So far I have not been able to use a "piggyback" current to get a Plasma on my spark plugs.I will never claim to be a electronic wizz. but I can solder up circuits ( also burn them up on occasion) and try different hook ups.IN SAYING THIS HAS ANYONE BEEN ABLE TO GET A HIGH AMP CHARGE TO ' PIGGYBACK 'AS OF YET??? Please fell free to comment . thanks for the computer lesson Mr.LUC
thanks   Bruce

Hi ezBruce,

thanks for sharing. I attached the circuit to your post above which will make it easier for those who want to look at it. I don't have time to look at it now since it's a sunny day today and I have to make changes to my engine and re-test.

Everyone is welcome to join in please.

Luc