Linnard?s hydrogen on demand system without electricity !

[mscoffman]

Hi Chris and Mark,

Just FYI along these lines.

The test cell I had built to mimick your setup never achieved a state of being endothermic. Every measurement I made with a digital thermometer indicated that the test cell was always running approximately ONE degree (F) above room temperature. These were side by side direct measurements in my temperature and humidity controlled basement.

This disappointed me a bit because I expected that once the zinc was being regenerated that the temperature of the electrolyte solution would drop below room temperature. This never happened.


Dave(RR2)

ResinRat2;
and
TacMatricx

Yes, RR, Thanks, I acknowledge what you said, just doing some verification.

In college chemistry we learned that all reactions have an energy balance. Either the chemical
reactants provided chemical potential energy, which when they ran out stopped the reaction or
energy was provided externally, like by electrical current, in either case the reaction would also
stop if reaction byproducts (exhausts) built up in the solution. Just like a Perpetual motion
machine that will break down or wear out, side reactions from contamination can be expected
to build up in the Linnard system.  What is suprising is that the two reaction products have a
rather large combustion energy between them and also an ignition energy between them and
that means they are a fuel and oxidizer pair.

Catalysts lower the reaction energy barrier between reactants but do not supply
the chemical potential energy to make the reaction proceed. So where does
the extra energy of this reaction come from?  Endothermicity was the last hope
of explaining the reaction in usual terms. That leaves us with an explanation of
an "exotic" energy source powering this reaction.

While the endothermic explanation would be more theoretically satisfying. An
exotic energy explainantion would make the the reaction much more valuable,
much more ZPE like and a much better potential as an energy supply competitor
to conventional systems. Of course if is it getting it's reaction energy somehow
from a more mundane source it's value drops significantly, even though it might
still have some valuable to someone maybe trying to reform something like coal
slurry to hydrogen + CO2 or something. So I doubt that it has no value and it
appears as it has significant value.

---

I as you, am not too exited by the prospect of having armatures or hobbyist trying
to store large amounts of hydrogen, even though I would be willing to purchase
a commercial hydrogen storage subsystem - hopefully fully debugged. I am
equally non-exicted by the concept of burning hydrogen gas in an ICE internal
combustion engine. So I am generally awaiting the automotive mass production
of hydrogen fuel cells to bring the price down and eliminate the need to store
hydrogen. Once this happens, I assume these HHO production systems are
really going to take off. As I have said in another post 16KW vehicle fuel cells
are ten times bigger than the 1.5KW continuous part of the demand for electrical
energy that the average home consumes. (excluding variable heating energy).

So I am continuing to be interested in what you and others are finding with this
Linnard (like) system. And I am definitely hoping for it's success. Good work
so far!


:S:MarkSCoffman

[ResinRat2]

Hi Mark,

I agree, the endothermic possibility of this system is what appealed to me and it gave a conventional explanation for the source of the system's energy. I guess I am not like the majority of the researchers on this site who have the hope of tapping ZPE. I don't think it plays any role in Linnard's system. I just think this system is an overall conventional reaction that is complex because of the high concentration of reactants due to the use of colloidal minerals. That's all.

I saw evidence of the endothermic nature of the reaction by feeling the coldness of the electrodes during the reaction, and also the coldness of the electrolyte solution when the hydrogen production was speeded up using a battery. The temperature of the solution dropped, but I never actually measured it. Then I was disappointed by the finding (not duplicated by Chris' testing) that the solution did have a higher temperature (about one degree F) than room temperature.

After thinking about this for a while I have come to a hypothesis that perhaps the electrolyte solution is warmed slightly, but that the endothermic nature of the reaction shows up in the physical coldness of the electrodes. This means that the electrodes are the actual physical material that absorbs the energy from the atmosphere around the reaction vessel, and transfers that energy into the reaction. That would explain what is happening. I just don't know how to test this. I think if I put a temperature probe against the parts of the electrodes that are sticking outside of the reaction vessel and it shows a temperature colder than air temperature, then this would be evidence that this is what is happening.

Just ideas that are running through my head. I still need to find a reliable way to test this.

Thanks for your input.

Dave(RR2)

[ResinRat2]

Hi Chris,

I was examining the electrodes from this latest experiment and noticed that the tungsten-carbide electrode had zinc plated on it, so the voltage above 0.9 volts appears to be a no-no for regeneration, unless some type of resistor is put between the tungsten carbide and zinc rods. The thing that surprised me was that the tungsten rod used for regenerating the zinc also had zinc plated on it. Could there have been a back voltage that pushed the zinc back toward the regenerating tungsten rod. Apparently so.

So, I will start a fresh cell with a variable resistor between the zinc and tungsten carbide electrode and use 0.90 volts as a setpoint for regeneration and study the long term effects there. I really want to see the oxygen come freely off the zinc rod.

This is very interesting. I can't help but anticipate that there is an "ideal" voltage setting that will accomplish the regeneration of the zinc and not on the tungsten carbide electrode.

[Davetech]

Hi Dave,
Regarding the measurement of the electrode temperature... I am presently experimenting with different designs of solar water and air heaters and have been eyeballing the new non-contact infra red thermometers that are offered all over eBay. I think one of these would help me spot changes of efficiency in my designs. I don't have one yet, so I have not been able to confirm this but... since it works with an infra red laser, I wonder if it couldn't shine the laser right through the electrolyte and get a reading off the submerged electrode? 

The units on eBay claim an accuracy of about plus or minus 2 degrees centigrade, so they are not exactly lab quality, but still you might be able to get useful data.

I haven't thrown my 2 cents in here for a long time, but I read nearly every day. IMO of all the different project threads presented on this whole forum, I think this thread holds the most promise for a true breakthrough toward releasing us from the grip of the energy giants. Like you, I don't put much stock in the ZPE. I also don't envision running a conventional ICE off of the output (although I do hope engines specifically designed to use HHO will be developed.) My excitement is more geared toward scaling the cell up, way up, and using the output to power a stationary power plant for an off grid home.

Even if it turns out that it is easier to just replace the zinc electrode now and then, hell, zinc is cheap and plentiful. A whole lot cheaper than black gold!

While I'm spouting my opinion, I think that the output from this cell may the closest thing to "free energy" we'll see unless someone manages to contain fusion... lol.  Anyway, my hat is off to you, Dave, for your dogged perseverance and determination.

[Peterae]

Hi Davetech
I have one of these thermometers, the better one to buy has 2 lasers that cross to give you the optimun distance for measurement, in my instructions it says it will not penetrate glass but instead read the surface of the glass temperature.

Hope that helps

Peter