The Road to Perpetual Motion

[Nabo00o]

The effects on centrifugal force can do some obvious strange and unormal things compared with our general used linear motion, which we use in most of our machines and generators. The pendulum is the perfect example of this. We know that when the pendulum falls down it creates or recives a strong centrifugal pull out and away from the center axis which it rotates on. However, if we then would try to use that mechanical pressure in a machine to capture it you would soon realize that the pendulum would loose its momentum, and so in a way it is after all connected with the motion of the pendulum. But, in total opposite to any nomal motor/generator or other mechanical function, in which the loss of energy allways is proportional to the ammont of resistance in its system, in the pendulum case, the more resistance you add to the movment of its center axis, the less energy will be lost by the pendulum, which can be said in another way:
The more load you put on the mechanical ouput from the center axis of a oscillating pendulum, the lesser will the loss of energy from the moving pendulum be. Still the pendulum will be able to put out a mechanical force, and many times longer than if the resistance on the central axis were to be lowered.

A bit messy written pehaps, but I think that most of you will agree that this is indeed the way a pendulum works, and really any other mechanical process which uses centrifugal movment of a common axis as its source of power. The relationship between resistance and power has actually been reversed. And also, from there we can begin to enter the realm of "perpetual motion", but not in the true sence of course,  as the energy or potential must come from somewhere...

[Kator01]

Hello Hans,

this is exactly what pequaide is doing in his experiment.

http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=1995.200

momentum is conserved p = m x v ( german : Impulserhaltung ) but not energy an so is force because

F = dp/dt


One has to release ( seperate)  part of a rotating mass ( steel-spheres)  and at the same time transfer momentum of the left-behind rotating mass via a steel-string to the spheres trying to escape in a tangential way.

These two topics fit together.

Here is an intersting collection of physics for all formulas - very good tutorial
http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/hframe.html

@utilitarian : force is a result of the mass-inertia ( and not the gravitation) of a rotating mass (in this example )  , trying to stay on its straigth forward-pasage while it is contantly  forced ( beeing attached to a  string ) to come back to the circling path.
When a mass is in free fall within a graviation-field there is no force present - only in the above case of rotation -
force then appears because the mass tries to stay on a translatory path.


Regards

Kator

[hansvonlieven]

@ Kator,

You are absolutely right, this is what Pequaide is on about though I approach it from a more general direction.

@ Marctwo

This is not the middle of another thread. I have been on about the separation of systems as a key ingredient from day one. This is just another instance.

Just bear with me guys, I am not here to confuse anyone. It is just a lot of work to get it all together bit by bit.

Hans von Lieven

[Marctwo]

...This is not the middle of another thread. I have been on about the separation of systems as a key ingredient from day one. This is just another instance.

Up to the introduction of this new tangent, this thread has been about a very specific mechanical design... not general ideas on why PM should work.  The two may be related in broader terms and belong in this forum, but they do not relate specifically so should be in different threads.

Now, I was going to try to explain the benefits of organizing different subjects into different threads;  Not only for those of us that see them as they are created,  but for those that will be browsing these forums in the future and have no memory of all the off-topic lines of discussion tucked away inside various threads.

But I seem to be the only one concerned with this.  So if you and everyone else are happy to have your general theories of PM lost in the middle of arbitrary threads across the forums,  who am I to advise otherwise.

[Pirate88179]

Marctwo:

I see what you are saying but look at the title of this topic: The Road To Perpetual Motion.  Hans started out outlining his thinking and approach to not only to a specific device, but to the path traveled by others that came before that led to this device.  I think this is essential not only for Hans' understanding of how a working device may be made, but to ours as well.  With his mention of Helmholtz, I believe he was trying to illustrate for us that the "conventional" thinking that this is impossible may be wrong, and why.  To me, this is very important and very related.  Just my thoughts.

Hans:

Looking forward to seeing your future posts.  If anyone can make this work, it is you.

Bill