Gravity Mill - any comments to this idea?

[2tiger]

Tbird
I forgot something.
This will only work by a ration beween "lifting tube" and "shuttlepistontube" from 1:1.
Do the math and see what happen, if you have a ration from 1:5.

By
2Tiger

[2tiger]

Hi all
I attache some calculations to previews posts, so that you can proof this.

You can change al diameters of all tubes, height of the shuttle and the height of the whole device. The lifted water will always have half volume/height of the shuttle.

You can only lift the water to a higher level when you increase the weight of the shuttle, but the you need more bouyancy force to lift the shuttle back to the top.

Tell me if I?m wrong.

CU
2Tiger

[prajna]

tbird,

From: http://www.challengers101.com/Pressure.html
     "Absolute pressure = Gauge pressure + Atmospheric pressure"

Thus Gauge pressure = Absolute pressure - Atmospheric pressure.  If I have the box open the gauge reads 0 bar.  If I close the box and double the pressure inside it then the absolute pressure is 2 bar and the gauge reads 1 bar.  If I double the pressure again then the absolute pressure is 4 bar and the the gauge reads 3 bar.  If I double the pressure again then the absolute pressure is 8 bar and the gauge reads 7 bar. Yes? So to get gauge pressure from absolute pressure I always subtract 1 from the absolute pressure.  If not then I am still lost over this.

I'll add imperial units to the page then, tbird.  It's a chunk of work but I guess it will make it a lot easier for those who live in imperialistic countries.

I didn't suggest electric control.  Sensors were mentioned with reference to my design but my preferred approach would be hydraulic.  I think I have something in mind for recompression.  I have been working on a design and also a page to explain the principles in really simple terms.  I have drawn the pictures and I just have to add the explaination, then I will put it all up on my site.

[tbird]

2tiger,

be careful with giving definitive statements here you can't really back up.

It doesn?t matter if it is 10 m or 100 m depth, because the watercolums (without shuttle) are canceling its weight eatch other out thrugh the hydrosttic pressure. The only thing that takes effect (unbalance) here is the shuttle with 50% more weight (comparing with same volume of water). As result you?re still lifting half of the shuttle height.
Is the shuttle 1m high then you can lift 50 cm over seawater, but the tube has to have a little bit less (49cm) so the water can flow out.

you are doing ok except for 1 minor detail.  you should use weight instead of height in this sentence, "As result you?re still lifting half of the shuttle height."  they are proportionate, but weight is more appropriate.  i think this is where you start going wrong.

If you choose a lower diameter for the tube over sealevel, let us say the half diameter of the tube under water, then you will have to double the pressure by making the shuttle two times heavier.
ONLY in that case you were able to double the height over sealevel.

That is the hydrostatic paradoxon!

i have covered this extensively in other post, but here goes again.  the doubling the pressure is not needed.  that amount of pressure (created by the weight difference) will pickup a given WEIGHT.  it doesn't matter if it is contained in an area of x by y or y by x.  it exerts the same pressure.  the reason it would stop lifting is because the WEIGHT above water level equals the amount of WEIGHT the shuttle can lift.   the  hydrostatic paradoxon is helpful by providing pressure to the back side of the shuttle to lift the water that is above the shuttle, but only to the surface.  this doesn't apply to the water in the head pipe because hydrostatic paradoxon is based on pressure differences.  this makes them want to be level and equal.  in our case the water outside the pumping pipe has already neutralized  the water above the shuttle, but only to the surface. thus the only weight or pressure the head water can apply to the shuttle is what it WEIGHS.  if the shuttle has more lift, the water will go up.

Tbird
I forgot something.
This will only work by a ration beween "lifting tube" and "shuttlepistontube" from 1:1.
Do the math and see what happen, if you have a ration from 1:5.

By
2Tiger

the ratio you refer to should be comparing the head pipe volume to the pumping pipe volume.  the pressure area (the part that applies the force) of the shuttle will be close to this.  it depends on how well it fits (could have been a big problem with your test).  the other figure is more reliable.  i hope you understand now.

[tbird]

 prajna,

i'm sure you will blush when the light turns on.

the pressure you figure for the depth includes 1 bar of atmosphere at the surface.  now if you double that (to allow for expansion at depth), you have 2 of those units.  that amount doesn't change if you go deeper because in your pressure calc you only add 1 bar for the above atmosphere.  so whatever figure you double, it still only comes out 2 for the atmoshere pressure.  but it is 2 not 1.

I'll add imperial units to the page then, tbird.  It's a chunk of work but I guess it will make it a lot easier for those who live in imperialistic countries.

i'm a happy camper 

I didn't suggest electric control.  Sensors were mentioned with reference to my design but my preferred approach would be hydraulic.  I think I have something in mind for recompression.  I have been working on a design and also a page to explain the principles in really simple terms.  I have drawn the pictures and I just have to add the explaination, then I will put it all up on my site.

can't hardly wait to see!  did the magnets give you any thoughts.  i thought of a refrigator door seal.  magnetic and seal well.

tbird