energy efficiency

[GestaltO]

I think the concept of efficiency is outdated. For a group of open minded people i feel that laws of efficiency and equations are limiting.

laws are a method to inhibit people from doing things, i.e murder, theft etc etc it then follows that laws of physics thermodynamic energy efficiency etc are also limiting us. even the whole over unity concept.

Anyone else agree?

[TinselKoala]

The laws of physics aren't proscriptive, like the human laws you state. Physics laws are more like statements of observed regularities in the world--that is, they are descriptive, not proscriptive.
Many physical "laws" come from observations of large aggregates of particles, or from observations over long periods of time, and are thus partly or wholly statistical in nature. Some "laws" are mathematically necessary entailments of other "laws"--to the extent that the math is correct, then these "laws" may be thought of as proscriptive, in that certain things may be allowed while others aren't. The conservative nature of the gravitational "field" is an example here.
You minds should indeed be open--but not so open that your brains fall out. No matter how outdated you might think they are, certain physical laws just won't permit themselves to be "modernized" or updated.
I suspect the 2LoT, CofE, and so forth fall into this category--statistical, but not likely to be "broken" in the macroscopic world anytime soon, no matter how modern your thinking is.

[GestaltO]

i agree to a certain extent, however the intruments used to observe and measure these things are designed based on intial observations which means that the measuring instruments themseleves are biased towards the intial theory. this is the same for anything and everything in science.

A good example would be measureing current via an ammeter. An ammeter was designed with the intial resitance, voltage and current equations in mind therefore it is biased towards these equation, in the same way a clock is biased and measures time according to 24 hours in a day, however there isn't exactly 24 hours in 1 revolution of the planet.

edit: another example would be the existence of atoms, we physically cannot see an atom no matter how powerful the microscope so we use STM's tofeel them and generate a computer image, the STM is biased based on the initial atom theory.

[shruggedatlas]

i agree to a certain extent, however the intruments used to observe and measure these things are designed based on intial observations which means that the measuring instruments themseleves are biased towards the intial theory. this is the same for anything and everything in science.

A good example would be measureing current via an ammeter. An ammeter was designed with the intial resitance, voltage and current equations in mind therefore it is biased towards these equation, in the same way a clock is biased and measures time according to 24 hours in a day, however there isn't exactly 24 hours in 1 revolution of the planet.

edit: another example would be the existence of atoms, we physically cannot see an atom no matter how powerful the microscope so we use STM's tofeel them and generate a computer image, the STM is biased based on the initial atom theory.

Well, the good news is that you are completely free to write your own theory of the way the particles in the universe work, if you do not like the current way things are explained.  Be sure to support your theories with empirical data!

[TinselKoala]

"another example would be the existence of atoms, we physically cannot see an atom no matter how powerful the microscope so we use STM's tofeel them and generate a computer image, the STM is biased based on the initial atom theory."

Unfortunately your analogy breaks down--because we never really "see" anything, except photons reflected or emitted by whatever it is we are looking at. In a sense the photons "feel" the target in almost the same way as the atomic force microscope "feels" the atom.
But I do agree--your perception of what those photons represent is strongly dependent upon your tacit "theory" of the world.
A black cat detector, which only responds to black cats, will lead you to believe that only black cats exist. Unless you can free your mind of logical error and bias, and perform the correct kinds of control experiments, that is...