Air - water electric generator

[jeanna]

OK I have 2 ideas about this.

1) Instead of upturned buckets to catch the waste hot air, maybe something like a parachute that would expand to catch the air going up then at the top  would collapse and be "brought " back down the loop by pulling from the point to make sure the chute stays closed, then something at the bottom to allow it to open up again.

This way the drag on the down swing would be much less than the pointed bucket.

Also,
2) If a bucket is used, a device or design that allows the bucket to close just before going up and then open for the downward trip should work too.

Jeanna

[mscoffman]

@all;

There is an easy way to see that this type of machine will not function
because there is no energy gain.

Draw an imaginary boundary around the containers going down, Draw a second
one around the containers going up, Draw a third around the containers at the
bottom of loop. Label them "A","B", and "C". In "A" the buoyant energy is negative
and the containers are dropping. In "B" the containers are *emitting* buoyant energy
and going up. And due to conservation of energy principle in "C" the containers are receiving
all of the potential energy they are going to be emitting in "B".

So the laws are;

a) an object is buoyed up with the weight of the fluid it displaces
...but...
b) an object that changes it's displacement at depth has to lift the weight of
whole column of fluid above it, which is quite heavy.

So this machine has no gain and friction will slow it to a stop.

---

On the machine with the hoses,

a) the operation in the bottom reservoir occurs at pressure p while at the top it occurs at pressure
p' p'>>p so the hose will see a vacuum because of the pressure difference and the vacuum will
keep the weight inside the container.

b) If one were somehow to link containers side-by-side, one would see that ones needs to
supply two things. Energy from the top and hydraulic fluid from the top.

---

There are three things you can do to make the analysis easier.

a)  Use a mechanism that is entirely submerged below the top level of the fluid.
Like yours is.

b) Use two different density fluids which are incompressible
rather than gases which are compressible. For example, liquid metal mercury and vegetable oil.

c) make the container and piston "square" to form a rectangular footprint
for calculating the volume of fluid in the column above the container.

:S:MarkSCoffman

[Creativity]

@farid
i had eactly the same idea months ago,unfortunately it takes eactly the same amount of energy to pump air as u get back from the machine.Many others also had it on ou .I made a model and calculations.Air pump has to push up the water volume equivalent to air volume.Pressure rises with depth.

[mscoffman]

Ok;

Just because the gravity column contains no gain. Is that a reason to give up?
No...not in my opinion. Several different sub-systems involved with the original diagram
shown could have overunity gain themselves, even if the column doesn't. It simply means
that the simplified diagrams machines with the hoses cannot self run.

a) If the "air nozzle" injects "cold air" into containers and we put an "energy meter"
right at the nozzle, we would see that some of the buoyant energy is coming
from the air is via absorbing heat from the liquid column, and not all of the energy is
necessarily coming through the nozzle. Note; the diagram then is somewhat incorrect, if
this is the case and the air bubble in the container should be shown as expanding (but
not overflowing) as the containers rise, as well as there should be heat-sink fins on the
liquid column to showing heat is able to flow in from outside the column rather than being
insulated.

b) To produce a self running system with (a) above, though, you are going to need an
air compressor that can re-absorb the heat of compressing the air itself. A special form
of air compressor is required.

Or

c) One can use something called a "shock air injection valve" rather than an "air nozzle",
these can reputedly put air into a compressed environment with less energy than a nozzle can,
- creating gain.

d) One can also produce Dynamotor gain. This is where one uses a open core rotor electric
motor (like a stepper motor) with a permanent PM magnet stator field. If one drives this in
pulse "fly-back mode" one seems to be able to get overunity gain electrically.

The combination of gain of a+b and d for example may be able to overcome frictional losses
in the column and make a self running system or beyond. But, these features are not shown
in the original diagram.

:S:MSCoffman

[Farid]

Farid, if you have some external source of high-pressure air, then your bucket chain wheel will turn, of course, and you can make it turn a generator or another air compressor. But, because of the water's viscous losses, it would be much more efficient to use the high-pressure air to drive a turbine directly.
You have to consider, that what ever method you use, pistons, bellows, pumps, balloons, etcetera, you are moving that same volume of water around, as you also move your bucket chain. This costs work--just as much as you get from the buoyancy change in the first place. There isn't any left over to move external mechanisms, and since there are always frictional losses, the mechanism comes to a stop.
Unless, of course, you supply it with an external source of energy, like compressed air from a different compressor.

Dear Tinsel Koala, Thank you again for your thoughts and help.
I have read carefully your comment and i want to exeplain Two things.
1- The Number of buckets which hold the air is not limited so you can add 30 or 40 or 50 or 1000 Bucket on the row so if the water resestancy yoou can have 10 buckets and movement of the machen parts you can have 10 Buckets and for generators of electricity and air pumps movement you can add another 20 and another 20 for the plus electricity which will be used in houses or schools or what ever
2- to make the resestancy of water less we can add a heater to the water to make the water hot all the time and offcourse if the water is on high tempruter his resestance will be much less than if its in normal tempruture
Thank you and i will exeplan more on my comeing repalies to the comments

Dear friends i am sorry i couldnt answer any comments from many days becouse of network problems i have.
Thanks and best regards
Farid