Open "Free Source" ideas

[rlortie]

In my introduction to this thread, I suggested some basic ground rules

Think  of a ball playing field, stupid ideas are welcome as it gives participants a longer field  to grab the ball and run, improving on the idea. We will see how many members respond, how many ideas are posted and how long this thread will stay active. All are welcome to join in, but please lets keep to the rules of the game.


So far P-motion is the only one to present an idea, and they certainly offer the prescribed rather long playing fields to improve upon, which was my secondary point of the experiment!. All the other posts are rhetorical hypothesis of who should get what. You have the cart before the horse, you need the 'what' and then all members who have donated productive ideas are the ones recognized to share!

I thought I knew a little about human, and social behavior, I did not expect this thread to gain the  attention it is. Unfortunately, as well proven it is not receiving  the intended type of input.

That being; does, does any one have suggestions of improving and or implementing p-motions input?

Ralph     

[helmut]

  Ralph,
One aspect of a Think Tank is that everyone is an equal part of it. This is to promote the free exchange of ideas.
An example of this would be when dggraphic, Helmut, Pequaide and myself were discussing different ways a pendulum motion could be used in a wheel. It wasn't who had the best idea, but what ideas did someone have.
Then as I worked on a design, I was able to build it to better understand how the different things that were discussed could work.
As with what you suggested, whether it was in jest or not, I do not know.
As for a design that could be built, this would actually be a rare opportunity. No perpetual wheel has ever been demonstrated publicly that was open to inspection. And I think that what would be really cool. To allow for the best possible design is to consider anyone willing to discuss what could work well, or what might not an equal partner. This would help to make an actual build easier by allowing for a better initial concept.
And with the backgrounds and experience the people in here and BesslerWheel.com have, it would be a waste of their ability not to try and encourage people in both forums to participate.

Hi Jim
I think you just express it the right way.
All informations or inputs can be most important.
Ones we had a link to a Youtube Vid showing a Gravity wheel from fuelles power im Motion.
There was a working process to watch.The same setup as in the prospect.
I whish we had a copy of this.

helmut

[bluesgtr44]

Let's go with P-motions basic design.....it has been tried before many times in differing applications. The most recent one I remember is one KAS put out. It had another smaller wheel that was attached pendulum wise, to the axle in a way that provided as offset to one side. It used inner connecting rods that shifted the weights which provided an offset path from the axle......as you have shown. He did this with WM2D and it seemed to work within this program, but SIM world is NOT real world, unfortunately. I want to give some personal kudos to KAS, he does put his stuff out there and has a keen view of this endeavor.

In any of my efforts with this approach it seems that the configuration always finds its "symmetry". It's breaking that symmetry at some point and then having the ability to maintain and control that offset while the wheel itself is accelerating...which provides other little goodies that will have an affect on this offset. So, my approaches to ideas is usually setting up the basis and then grasp the understanding of why it won't work in the particular form or set-up. From there I can try to make adjustments and see if I am just trying the S.O.S. by changing the semantics, not actually changing the disposition.

I know I don't come here much and it's not to say I don't like what happens here. I'm pretty much a Bessler enthusiast because I believe he did it! And there is a lot of information to go on from his demonstrations and tests, so I spend most of my time at the Bessler site. So, that being said....I do like this approach and I would be more than willing to contribute, discuss, share whatever I can. Although, some of you may find that it's not much compared to others who are more knowledgeable than I am.


Steve

[Dgraphic911]

If i have an idea do i just jump in? or do i have to improve upon p-motions basic mechanical design. HMMMMM? i'm confused. Well lately i have been thinking about the "faking it" notion that was brought up a while back @ b wheel. Lets have acontest to fake it and the by product might be we could stumble upon it. Well that was intriguing and i right quick came up with the way to fake it. But the kicker was it had to be done the way bessler did it. No electric motors. hmmmm, that makes it harder for about a second.

Now some may say "off topic" but i say no. Because i believe i have a working design. It was based upon faking it, but grew. OK so lets get down to brass tacks.

For the sake of this working, we need to ASSume a few things. One being that our ideas that it will work and our misguided calculations of some designs efficiency are correct. It was suggested in Besslers time that a spring or wind up mechanism was the way in which it worked. And i think that we could make aself sustaining gravit wheel with one also. Just instead of using one large mechanism we use multiple mechanisms.To make it easy lets say 12 windup mechs at each hour position of the clock.

Now this is where we have to assume. Lets say that some of these " super efficient"  ineffective shifting mechs could be used to wind each spring mech though the use of rachet attachments. Some have made claims regarding patented devices that the swinging levers produce much more force than input to spin the wheel. And its these swinging levers that i suggest be attached directly via rachet to spring mechs. If you are unfamiliar with the wheel/device  that i speak, i am sure ralph or steve can eloborate as it was a recent Patent/wheel thread on Bwheel.

Now lets harnes this power from each 12th rotation, so that each mech fires ones every 12 rotaions. and we can have it fire easily by causing it to have a CCW mech that fire every 360 degrees.  Now where does it Fire?  How about down into a pendulum mounted in the center rotating on the axle. Every time it unwinds it flicks the pendulum.(like in the early bessler MT.This will cause continous motion in the pendulum and allow it to then deliver the "magic" force into yet another mech. The actual "prime mover" which could be any number of designs which will only go just about all the way but need that extra push.

If your still with me and want to believe then i can create some propoganda for the idea.

One of three kingdoms/  three separate mechs.   Pendulum, prime mover, spring rachet

There is definate evidence of some rachet parts and shifters that belong where???

If PM is possible then this is. I am hard pressed to find frictional loss on this desing(in my head). Unfortunately i find this to be a VERY complicated design to build. And would not fall into the "a carpenters boy coulb build it " category. But maybe the Spring mechs were hiden so the rest seemed to be easy.

This would easily fall into to self winding clock category which most of us think works. So ? Instead of spending the rest of the thread explaining to Pmotion how a balance beam works i would like to know what you think of my  IDEA?

I apologize if it makes no sense.
Dave

[DrWhat]

Hi Dave,

it was my idea to fake it (on BW) and to help us come up with a mech.

I do like your idea of multiple mechs at each hour position firing to swing the pendulum (if I understood it correctly). So you need to wind up the "hour position" mechs somehow, maybe like "pushing down on a large lever" that Bessler apparently did and then have a triggering mechanism at each hour point such that as one mech passed a rod it pushed the rod momentarily and a spring device pushed the main pendulum.

Then the pendulum would need a clattering ratchet device to swing one way and then push the wheel the other way.

Looks to me like you need a clockmaker to help you, or elso some more recent grandfather clock mechs may help.

Good idea. When are you starting a build ;-)

Damian (DrWhat)