Canceling Lenz's Law - Methods

[gyulasun]

Hi Steven,

Yes, in the meantime I also realized that practically they can be considered the same effect.

Thanks for this notice.

Gyula

[supermuble]

Just to clarify, Lenz law is indeed a factual law. It is a fact of all magnetic machines. However, if you modify the configuration, then Lenz law does not cause negative side effects. You can either use Lenz's law to wreck over-unity by letting it create drag inside of a motor/generator/transformer, or you can avoid letting it cause drag, and you can achieve over-unity.

This discussion is definetely not whether it violates the law of conservation of energy, since it does not. Electricity is created by a moving magnetic field. Magnetic fields create the electricity. Gasoline engines do not create electricity, they just provide a means of moving your generator which moves the magnets. However, since a magnetic field can be moved without using physical force, then there is no logical reason why you need "physical motion" to induce current!

Lenz's law causes the magnetism in a transformer to decrease, causing the transformer to fail. Instead of being an inductor, and resisting current flowing into the primary coil, the magnetic field strength collapses when you draw a load from the secondary. This is because Lenz's law makes the primary and secondary fields CANCEL EACH OTHER instead of REINFORCING each other. If you take Lenz's law out of the equation, then the primary inductor coil on a transformer will not increase current flow when the secondary coil is hooked up to a load. I have a post under the MEG forum that describes this in more detail. Though I am not an expert on transformers.

Faraday's law of induction says that one factor in how much electric power you can create is increasing the RATE OF CHANGE of the moving magnetic field passed over a coil of wire. On a generator that has no drag (no Lenz's law drag) then it can spin at very high speed, improving the RATE OF CHANGE, and according to Faraday's law, you get MORE VOLTAGE and MORE CURRENT without destroying tremendous amounts of energy at the input shaft of the generator.

Lenz law exists in motors. Yes, Lenz law causes drag. Lenz law creates drag anytime there is current moving through motor windings, or alternator/generator windings. Lenz law can only cause magnetic drag when the coils are carrying current. Coils that do not carry current do not have magnetism, so they cannot create magnetic drag.

The video of the Bedini-Cole window motor that runs on a capacitor may or may not be a true video, but it is definetely not far fetched to say that it worked. Without Lenz's law, you can make a motor that is self powering. Yes, self powering! (NO I have not done it myself... ) 

[BEP]

My statement about taking it out of the equation means taking it out because it no longer applies.
These laws are only observations by people. Most over a hundred years ago. We still pay for Faraday's mistake thinking particles couldn't go through a solid.
Lenz didn't include flat spirals in his law. I assume because Faraday said there was no induction.

Wrong. When you approach the axis of a spiral coil with a magnetic pole there is an opposing magnetic force generated in that coil. It just isn't 180 deg. opposing. It is 90 degrees. So if a magnet could also have a name for the equatorial part of the field then that is what opposes the oncoming magnet's pole.

That is one way.

The other is to have no variation in the magnetic flux - then Lenz no longer applies. Normally current isn't generated either!

Not always.....

CEMF, BEMF are not the same thing but both are tied to the Lenz law. BEMF is also called flyback. It is the result of a coil's magnetic field collapsing. It is created when you remove EMF from the coil. CEMF is the counter force created when you apply current to a coil.

There is absolutely nothing magical about BEMF (BEMF was not part of my vocabulary until I started using the web for research on these topics and I've been burning circuits since the early 60's)

If you build a magical generator (no Lenz) then it should not also work as a motor. If you build a magical electric motor (no Lenz) then it probably won't work.

I mean NO LENZ law - not reduced or countered or whatever.
For the generator you would be able to turn the shaft and feel absolutely no magnetic related reluctance. AFAIK the only way to do this is to design a rotor that smoothly shifts the magnetic flux from one coil to another without -ever- causing a fluctuation in that flux.

[supermuble]

Hi!

Correct. Laws are merely observations! 

The real world has no boundaries, and anything is possible. The people who cannot think outside of the box, are terrified. They are scared to find that their entire reality is just an illusion. The illusion is a world of limitations. We are taught specific limitations and we are forced to obey them.

When you realize that we (normal citizens) really know nothing, it is very difficult to accept!

BEP, I have a question.

I have no experience with spiral coils, but I was wondering if you could make a generator from a spiral coil and avoid Lenz law magnetic drag. If you were to move a north and south magnet paralell to the wire, would this generate any useable power? Otherwise, if you moved the magnet across the wires at a 90 degree angle, would this have Lenz law? I am having trouble picturing it, since I have never used or studied a spiral coil. I do know that they do not have self inductance, therefore no back emf.  In my understanding, you could induce current into a spiral coil, but there would not be ANY magnetic field in the spiral coil, since it has no inductance. Is this right?

[BEP]

BEP, I have a question.

I have no experience with spiral coils, but I was wondering if you could make a generator from a spiral coil and avoid Lenz law magnetic drag. If you were to move a north and south magnet paralell to the wire, would this generate any useable power? Otherwise, if you moved the magnet across the wires at a 90 degree angle, would this have Lenz law? I am having trouble picturing it, since I have never used or studied a spiral coil. I do know that they do not have self inductance, therefore no back emf.  In my understanding, you could induce current into a spiral coil, but there would not be ANY magnetic field in the spiral coil, since it has no inductance. Is this right?

By 'self inductance' you mean turn to turn induction? Yes, one turn would 'induce' into adjacent turns. Look at a typical, so-called 'Tesla transformer'. The primary is a spiral and the secondary a solenoid coil. Certainly there is induction. Also I consider this setup as likely free of the directly opposing Lenz problems.

A spiral coil follows the same rules as any other coil. The difference is a solenoid coil or single loop has the N/S poles at the ends of the axis of the coil.
A spiral has the N/S poles at the inner and outer diameters.

The Lenz law still applies, just not exactly as described in most text books. Most assume the two types of coils are the same except to the eye. They are not!

Make a generator with spiral coils? Why not? Figure it out and try. Be ready for some difficult winding. This may be why most folks haven't tried it. Think about the difficulty....

Winding a solenoid coil you just attach a wire to your spool form and spin that form until you have enough wire on it. (not exactly that simple). Multiple layers extend from the center of the axis in an ever increasing radial direction.

Multi layer spiral coils start at one end of the form and stay at that same spot until the maximum diameter of the coil is reached and then begin a second layer by winding in an ever decreasing diameter toward the coil form center, reverse-create another layer and continue until the length of the coil form is covered.

Difficult to describe but think of a rod with a bunch of washers stacked and slid onto it.

Then think of each washer as a separate flat spiral coil. All of these coils have the same handedness BUT one half of them have their winding start from the inner diameter and the other half start from the outer diameter.