Joule Thief

[Pirate88179]

MK1:

Well, what you are saying makes very good sense then.  In most, if not all, of the Bedini instructions, it says to take X amount of feet of two different wire sizes and wind a bifilar coil.  Lidmotor had a different idea and, after watching his Youtube videos, I copied his way.  I am not even sure that he has made this connection about the mass being equal.  I will have to ask him.  All I know is that his style coils are very efficient and this could easily explain why.  I was able to run my first Bedini motor from a single AA battery. (As did Lidmotor)  I don't think this would be possible using the other method.

I am very glad you mentioned this as it will make very good sense while winding our JT bifilar coils.

Thanks,

Bill

[jeanna]

Bill and Mark,

I first heard that the only way to achieve frequency of resonance was from Bill Beaty who said you can do it easily by matching the mass.
I believe he referenced the master (Tesla).

I have often wondered why that spec is so often overlooked.
It never occurred to me that others did not know it.

Thanks for bringing it up.

@DonL,
Thanks for trying to clear that up.
My question about trifilar is how they connect.
Is Bedini making a centertapped bifilar wound pulse creating coil and adding a secondary (third wire) to it?
If that is the case, why does he do it on each spool?
The way he described it, I thought they were all connected to each other electrically.

I will be adding a transformer to one part of my circuit today. I tried that a while ago and ran into the still unsolved issue of the second group putting out the first. Now that this is solved, I have to remember to revisit the question.

But first, I will see what lidmotor has to say.

Thank you everybody,

jeanna

[resonanceman]

I have been think about this since I replied.
I am using these in series and the pulses should be adding further flyback. Now, it makes some more sense to me.

I guess what is fixed by the primary toroid is the frequency, then all the rest are more spikes added to the others which are enhanced by the new flyback to give higher pulses.

Jeanna

This is   close to what I have found .......but it seems to be a little more complex.

I believe  resistance  plays  as much  of  a role   with  flyback as it does with resonance .
Although   any collapsing  magnetic field creates flyback ......because of resistance  the  spikes tend to  get  shorter and wider.   
At least that is  how  I see it .
Verifying  this is one of the  reasons  that I have decided I need a scope .

Oh this is great, Gary. I do not know how I missed that, but you are right.
It also explains why I had good results without adding the cap for a tank.

I finally got the right range of cap, yesterday, so now I am up to 24 lights in series. I was not sure the lights were as bright, and the voltage was up even higher with the additional lights, (so I did some errands to mull it over).

So, this is how I can have more and more voltage and more lights. I knew It was what I had to do, but not getting why.

If I  understand what you are saying here .......I think you  are talking about  resonance not  flyback .

Adding a cap  parallel  with the  base  resistor  gives you  an RC resonant circuit   

I am not sure  if resonance  is  the way to make  practical JT applications .
The resonance  is in a narrow  band .......the  JT  eaisly  drifts  out of this band .
If you   are using  resonance   to  gain more power  in your secondary circuit   if you  have a pot for  a base resistor   you  should find  that  the  highest  voltage  from your secondary   is  in  a narrow band ..... 
It might  be  interesting for you to check  the waveform  of your secondary  with  your scope ......both  with and without your new caps

If  we can get past the  problem of  drifting out of resonance  ....the  idea  way to use a toroid to make power would  be to  first  feed the output  to a coil or 2 ......to create  flyback ...the pulse  will  be smoothed out  some  by the process .
The  proper RC resonant circuit  would  then  raise  the  voltage  and  sharpen the spikes .......allowing for another  round of  inductors for flyback

This  can't  be done if the  frequency  is allowed to drift ....... the  RC circuits are fixed frequency ........ any variation  from the  frequency and you have no more resonance .


gary     

[resonanceman]

My last  post  got me thinking a little .

Can someone   with a scope  and  a  JT  that has a tank verify one of  the basic  concepts  behind my last post .

That  as  the voltage changes  in the JT primary .......the  frequency it runs at shifts .

Thanks

gary   

[jeanna]

Bill,
Thanks, that guy is great. I will buy the necessary wire next week and begin soon.

Gary,
I see your post in the reply screen. I might be able.
edit
in fact the input voltage changes the frequency. period. When one of those 2 components goes up, the other goes down, I see it all the time.
end edit

Where do you want me to check the frequency of the primary?

jeanna

edit, to save post space, I read your thought about resonance.

I have seen resonance in the form of a clear ring just coming from the inductor and NO cap many times.
In fact on one of the secondaries, (S1) there is a ring on one spot but no ring on another arm (S2)  of the circuit.

I am not going to bother to find the tesla quote where he says it is related to mass.
But..just think of it this way... the mass of the wire will naturally have a big effect on the resistance and that should stabilize it some.


Since a narrow bandwith makes a more spiky shape and the spikier the better, I think you are right that it is very picky to keep a particular resonance going when it is input voltage based.

just some more thoughts.
j